Dealing with sexism - If you could go back......

Am starting to remember more and more incidents while reading....at my grammar school no girls ever choose science subjects because Chemistry was mandatory and none of us girls wanted to have that teacher any longer than we had to.
Everyone knew that he would get girls to stand on desks (though I can't remember why or how) and stare up them. He touched girls over their clothes but touched all the same. No one liked him
But no one ever reported him because we knew we wouldn't be believed.
This seems so strange now but it wasn't then.
I had wanted to study Physics but could not because of the chemistry option.
I am certain no-one would back off now but women were constantly told that being touched inappropriately was our own "fault".
For being alone, or dressed provocatively.

I had no real idea then of male sexuality.
Not of what it can be like. Of course not all men are like this ....but it only takes one to make you feel bad. and back in the 1960's men still ruled everything.
Thankfully things have changed but I do wonder if today's women don't realize how recent that change has occurred and that we must keep on pushing against any erosion of our safety.
Like the mixed gender changing rooms. Which are being brought in and Female spaces are taken away.

I brought my daughter up to be assertive and strong but she has also had to deal with men being aggressive and scary though she has not had the constant abuse we had back then.

One of my daughters worked for many years in Paris and then London, travelling by train in both cities. She found the best method of repelling badly behaved men (and there were a lot of them) was to let her mouth hang open, stick her finger up her nose and go cross eyed. She is a rather assertive lady but reckons this worked best for her.

Good for your brother-in-law sunseeker. That was so courageous and selfless.

Ah - it just did when I posted it!

Some of you may have already seen this. I have used it with students as a helpful way of explaining sexual consent. A useful analogy .... copy and paste the link (sorry can’t work out how to make it ‘live’!)
youtu.be/cT4gym83QJc

Our math teacher when I was in 3rd year of the seniors would insist on separating the boys from the girls by having 3 rows of boys seated in front of his desk and the remaining girls to his left. He almost never referred to us except to say things like 'so long as you can count your change when shopping' or so long as you know how many children you have' why do you need to learn math ?
He was loathe to ever acknowledge if you had your hand up to answer a question and when there was absolutely no response to be had from the boys he would grudgingly let you answer and then quickly move on if you were right.
Shocking behaviour which we all knew was out of order and I know he would never get away with that attitude today. It was a good school with a good reputation but he was a disgrace as my previous math teacher was an absolute star

Low self esteem + innocence will always be sought out by paedophiles and rapists. Be careful with spouting your arrogant, and rather heartless eroneous assumptions that it could never happen to you. Walk a mile in another man's moccasins...

I was groped by my male cousin at the tender age of 14, he would have been 17 ish ...he pressed me up against a wall at home grabbed my breasts and said "you haven't got much, have you " I was so innocent but so humiliated. To this day I have never told anyone. .60 years on....why? Because his father and my mother were brother and sister and idolised each other so I knew I would never be believed. Never forgotten.

I think so many girls I knew growing up in the seventies had bad experiences, some worse than others. I think the most scared I ever was, was in the house of a neighbour, they had a few friends in for drinks, we were all 20 somethings, and he had been away in the army, and I hadn’t met him before.
We got chatting, and he asked if I’d like to go upstairs and see how he’d decorated the nursery, he literally chucked me on the bed, his hand was over my mouth, I could hardly breathe, never mind scream, he undid his jeans, pulled mine down, and I don’t even know what happened, maybe he heard something, but he up and left me.
The stupid part is, that I told my husband, but completely played it down, almost making it a bit humorous.
I’m over all these things, I don’t let them bother me, but I doubt I was the only girl he tried to rape, and he probably succeeded with some.

I think it’s amazing that today’s younger women are paying more forthright about their experiences. But I think the optimism on this thread that it’s better is overly optimistic.

But maybe I’m just being pessimistic.

Men have such a deeply ingrained sense of protection and authority to do whatever they want. Just look at Brock Turner in America.

More focus needs to be made on teaching people not to assault.

Can I put in a good word for men?

My brother in law, walking back to his car one night heard a noise from an alleyway. He decided to investigate and came upon two men attacking a woman. He waded in and pulled them off her, she ran off to a nearby pub, the police were called and the men were arrested and eventually went to prison.

Women should feel safe at any time, day or night, and I believe many men would act the same way as my brother in law

(My brother in law lost two teeth in the encounter and received a fine for overstaying in the car park!)

Old heads of young shoulders oh how I wish I could travel back as well, it'd be fun but not for everyone. I'd certainly deal with some people in a different way

Summerlove

I don’t actually blame myself, but I know for sure that some of the situations I found myself in, would have been avoided if I’d acted differently.

So many similar experiences, it's still surprising that the ingrained mentality of victim blaming is ongoing.
If anyone takes a shortcut along an unlit alley or a bit of grassy area even ... THEY are not asking for trouble, THEY are perhaps being naive but they are certainly not wanting or expecting to be attacked in anyway. An opportunist thief at best but a predatory rapist will take advantage of the situation.
As previously said, it's less likely to be from a stranger in a dark alley it is defiantly more likely to be in a relatively safe place from someone who should be safe.

Having the physical strength or training to look after yourself can give a false sense of security as you never know what you will do until you are in that situation and fear takes over.
After several really scary situations all dealt with very differently I do know that I didn't report any of them because I never felt I would be believed and I'm sure I'm right.

Being polite and not making a fuss, ingrained, not causing trouble within the family/friends of the 'adults' ingrained, not wanting to seem foolish, silly, overreacting or naive, again ingrained not wanting to be accused of 'bringing it on myself' The list is endless but as a young person, these are the reasons why I didn't report any of the assaults so I would never now as an older person ever say or allow to be said, 'well , what was she thinking about ? going/doing/wearing that ?? what did she expect ?? She certainly didn't expect that did she ?
Thanks for OP bring this up, I know I'm not alone, I've always known that sadly but hopefully all the males in our lives will be living with our attitudes and experiences and it'll get better eventually.

sara it’s heartbreaking to me that you are taking blame for “stupid choices”. It’s never the victims fault.

More focus needs to be on “DONT assult” vs “don’t make stupid choices”

Yes, when I was 21 I was asked in an interview when I was going to start a family! Another occasion on a train, two very drunk colleagues were extremely rude to me and I did nothing. My goodness the 69 year old me would have dealt with both situations very differently....

Was very very lucky to grow up with two older brothers who would look out for me, and told me to take no nonsense from anyone. I was working at the local Coop after school when in 6th form, and the manager was an old lecherer who would squeeze by me so to touch my bum or breasts. One day, filling the shelves, I accidentally dropped a jar of pickled onions and he went mental. I had been paid the day before, and the shop was full of customers- so I got up, told him where he could put his job and that it will be a pleasure not to be touched by such a disgusting old man. Took my pinny off and handed it to him and walked out. The customers all cheered and clapped.

No it's not right.
Women live with an informal curfew.
I felt always it was dangerous to be out alone after dark because it was.
It is time men were put under more pressure to stop behaving as if any lone woman was fair game.
It is still happening and attitudes have only just started to move on.
Like many here I have been raped and assaulted and grew to be very angry about it. I chose to stomp about in Dr Martins so that the message was clear.
Also as a teen going to work on the London Underground it was common to be groped which disgusted me. My friends and I would step back to tread on their feet if we could, as the attacker was usually behind us. though not always.
In the end I changed how I dressed during the day and would only go out with friends in the evening...but that is also a kind of curfew.
Also you had to be very alert the whole time you were out.

Amagran

Don’t misunderstand me, like many woman of my generation I’ve been treated inappropriately on many occasions.

I think woman should be able to wear whatever they wish, go wherever they wish, all without the fear of being raped or abused.

The sad fact is, that there are some men out there who think dressing in short dresses or walking home alone, is an invitation to have sex, it is NOT

Therefore, it makes sense to be careful, I know I’ve been lucky to an extent, I left home at 15, having had quite a sheltered upbringing, and suddenly, I was free.

Women are never ever to blame, and it sickens me whenever you hear someone say, well she asked for it, but as long as there are men like that out there, we have to be alert and careful.

50+ years ago when I was a teenager in my first job a customer put his hand up my overall. One of my bosses saw it had a very loud and shouty one sided conversation and barred him from the business.

The boss, a man in his late thirties, then took me into the office made sure I was alright and told me I was never to put up with anyone doing anything like that. If it happened again at work to tell him and that I wasn't ever to stay silent but to shout out if it happened any where else.

What an enlightened man he was, it was a family run business and a lovely place to work. My mum never told me anything about this as I don't think she'd thought about it so I was really lucky to have such a good boss.

That advice stuck with me and many years later in another job I was with my boss at a London bank negotiating a loan of many thousands. I was the only woman in the group, it was all very posh, we were all in business suits.

As we were walking from the conference room to the dining room one of their directors pinched my bum very hard. I had with me my hardshell briefcase :-) I didn't feel as if I could "shout out loud" as my first boss told me to :-(

However, I brought my briefcase back and gave him a sharp bang on the shin :-) :-):-) He said "Ouch" and I said I was so terribly sorry.

In my bosses car on the way back to HO he asked why I'd whacked the man with my case so I told him, he wasn't happy. He asked me to give him time and trust him, he would do something.

My boss asked me if I'd ever been treated like that on site (I was running a building site at the time) I never had been and he said I never should be. Another good chap and a lovely boss.

Once we were back at work he asked around and there were other women who this man had touched by the man so he got us together and in the end the Banking firm sacked the man. We still got the loan :-)

My girls don't let this treatment go either, one is "a techie bird" in IT, her words, and the other is in engineering so both work with lots of men but seem to have a good rapport or have been very lucky.

But I must admit I brought them up with the advise of my first boss, don't put up with this treatment and don't stay silent.

I'm glad things are changing but there is a place for banter and for us not to be offended by everything. It's a delicate line between "A bit of Fun" and overstepping the mark but out and out inappropriate behaviour needs to be stomped on every time.

sandelf So - what IS foolish behaviour? I ask as (both still ok to walk) my OH and I walk in the countryside locally - on public footpaths. I know that if he becomes unable to come with me - I will NEVER do this. I'm sure I would be continually on the lookout for lone men ahead or behind. Not really right is it?

I am exactly the same and it annoys me!!

As someone said upthread said many women had unwanted advances and experiences in earlier life, especially now older women like me.
My M had lots of married couples as friends and I put up with horrible kissing and groping from the men as a young girl.
I could never have told her.
I also had similar from my H’s much older brother when he first introduced me to his family.
I found out much later my, by then,SiL had the same experience with him and we both made sure we were never alone with him.

No sandelf, it’s not right at all. I’m willing to bet that your DH doesn’t think that way - he’s not worried about being sexually assaulted or raped, and if he were it would be a shocking event with every sympathy directed at him. If you were attacked there’s a mindset amongst some that you were foolish and that you somehow created that incident because you didn’t take sufficient care.

Nope, it’s not right - on so many levels.

I can remember 3 occasions in my teens when I had to run fast to get away men who expected sex as a right.

In the 60s I had an office job attached to a big engineering company. They moved a chap in from the workshops to work with me. He was hopeless, what little work he managed, I would have to redo. I found that he was being paid twice as much as me as he was a married man. I had several meetings with management about this inequality but they were unable to budge. I love the film about the Dagenham girls, it resonates with me about those times.

In fact thinking about that band of women, I wonder why some of our older male members aren’t recalling being sexually harassed in the work place.

Looking back, I had really only one incident of inappropriate behavior at work. More of a wolf-whistle that was repeated whenever I went on the factory floor from the office. It was dealt with by management immediately when I came into the office annoyed one day. The young fellow was disciplined, and it did not happen again.

I am very glad of the 'me too' movement for bringing these issues to light, and shaming the men into owning up to indecent behavior.