Prince Andrew

Who on earth says I am not supporting women?

Do we lump together all people who like fiction, do gardening, drive red cars?

The point I was making is that we cannot lump abusers together. If there is one thing we have learnt it must be that they come in all shapes, sizes, ethnicities.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

am so shocked at your nastiness gonegirl

why are you not supporting women?

I can’t see why the ethnicity of the groomers is relevant.
It seems to me there are two concerns:
Andrew continued his relationship with Epstein even when he knew about his conviction for sex trafficking.
He, allegedly, took advantage of that sex trafficking to have sex with a young girl who had been groomed.
I don’t see that because lots of men have sex with young girls it is ok for any man to have sex with young girls. I also agree with the points others have made that these girls are vulnerable and are psychologically not free to escape.
I don’t jump to the conclusion that the girls who have come forward are after money, although if they got some compensation that would be fine by me. I think that, like other victims of sex crimes, like the victims of Rolf Harris, Micheal Jackson, Jimmy Saville, and the many victims of sex crimes in established churches and boarding schools, they are concerned that such crimes should be reported and should not go unpunished, so that other young people will not have to suffer the same abuse.

I don't think it's particularly helpful to lump ( largely) men of Pakistani heritage with a Prince and I also think " wealth"is relative.

A free takeaway or a yacht. Power, cunning and enablers are the common denominator here.

Suziewoozie wrote;
This thread is too serious------
I agree, and it is good we are discussing it. I feel a little sorry for the Duke as he is carrying the can for many many other rich men and poor men too who hold a general attitude of bullying and predation towards girls and boys of a lower social caste. Yes, the Rochdale men too it's the same predatory attitude as for rich posh men who exploit others for their pleasure..

merlot when people post comments simply decrying the young women as being after money, I’m not sure how or why to respond to that other than calling it out as it is. When people compare the women on here to CB, I pointed out the ways in which it was not. I don’t actually care who-posts on here or no. And yes, I know as much as anyone on here and more than many because I bother to look up a range of information before I post. I also have preexisting information such as an understanding of the psychology of abuse. I do not think for example that being able to physically escape a situation means that you can psychologically or emotionally escape from it. Neither do I believe that young girls of 15 are free agents when sophisticated ‘enablers’ like GM ( PAs friend) go all out to ‘recruit’ them Just like the grooming gangs’ they know exactly who to target.

As a member of our Royal Family we have to talk morals.

Absolutely, Gonegirl! If you don't mind I'll add to what you wrote:
the more powerful the older person the more they have responsibility to protect the younger weaker one.

starbird surely you don't think that young girls are trafficked with grand promises of endless sex with well-known people, with threats of dire consequences if they say anything or try to leave?

No, they are promised other jobs, great pay, a wonderful life, travelling and at 17 or younger may be naive enough to believe this.

I imagine some of these girls have no-one or have parents who may be naïve, are poor and think this will be a wonderful opportunity for a glamorous life, not realising the reality.

I suppose the whole sorry thing is about power and abusing power.

Very often this is the case with abuse. Power, influence, money. clout.

You don't have to click on Annie's link, suziewoozie if doing so would offend you.

Just Google and you'll find the interview was broadcast on the main news media last night.
The young girl reminded me of a young Princess Diana which I found rather disturbing for some reason.

Do you spend all day reading up on this susiewoozie. You seem to know so much detail about it.

WadesNan today 11:41:58

Yes, that is more than probable.
And, as can be seen even on here, the victim of trafficking, abuse, etc is often blamed more than the perpetrators.

suziewoozie, I can't be the only one reluctant to contribute to this thread because of your bossy, know it all, high handed manner. You dismiss opinions you don't agree with by showing contempt backed up by unkind comments.

<shakes head in despair > I think I’ll just pass on your posts for the time being GG. This thread is too serious to be derailed by engaging in a childish spat with you. Do carry on until you get bored dear.

Temper?

Laughing more like.

You are such a hero. Taking on the whole world for the sake of women everywhere. You must be exhausted. Poor you.

Oh dear, GG temper temper.

It's not difficult when you're around suziewoozie. (Don't like it back at you do you?)

You really can post some nasty posts can’t you GG? Why don’t you do what you suggest to other posters sometimes. And yes it is hard work addressing misinformation and misogyny on GN. You should try it sometime.

The girls in the ‘grooming gangs’ were physically free to come and go - it was the psychological chains that bound.In another context, think of the women locked into relationships for years as victims of physical and mental abuse ( we’ve now recognised the concept of coercive control) .

^Quote suziewoozie Tue 19-Nov-19 16:11:35
Thanks Iam it’s hard work keeping on keeping on but I’m not going to let misogynistic, uninformed, hateful posts stand without challenge^

Mops brow heroically.

She was only 17 and you are still judging her.
because you think she could have got out of it.

Why not keep the blame on the exploiters....

My comment about Rotherham was extremely pertinent - it’s all about young girls being exploited by various methods for the sexual pleasure of men. There’s a whole psychology that you appear not to want to engage with here. The child grooming gangs are just like JE and his mates just not white and not rich. A mews house in Belgravia or a private Caribbean island is just as disgusting and grubby as a terrace house in Rotherham or Rochdale- young exploited women and disgusting older men.