Prince Andrew

That was 9 years ago!
Remind me?

Call I’ll PM you

Was it that rude?

Yes

Clever though!

whilst it is true that a person ( young girl in this case ) may be free to leave a situation , it is also true that for some the experiences that they have already encountered throughout their lives will have impacted on their world view of what is normal, acceptable, expected etc .
Decent men would not indulge in such activities,
PA clearly is not decent & neither does he appear to have many brain cells !

I don't think anyone should be accusing anyone of being racist on here. Misogynist is bad enough, but racist?

I asked for my post to be deleted
I know it was not appropriate

I am not a racist....I had a very personal experience that has made me biased
but it was a comment on a cultural attitude, not a race and no M word was used by me.
And i know I should not generalize on here. So I asked for the comment ro be deleted
It was stupid of me.

Can someone please explain to me how to have apost deleted.
I requested a deletion but the GNHQ has put it WAS deleted rather than at my request.
I have seen other posts say that the Poster requested

Perhaps they just beat you to it ?

Yes they might have....

Gone!here are racists on GN or at the very least posters whose posts are racist. The recent thread on Diane Abbot has some shocking examples,.Generalisations have also been made before about Muslims.

anniebach You keep saying that Andrew is being targeted and there has been nobody, other than the women making the allegations, who has come forward to give a witness statement, and no other high profile men reported to have been former friends of Epstein. I don't know if there are photos of these other people with their arms around the girl making the allegations - but there is one of Andrew.

I have seen reports where Bill Clinton and Donald Trump - and I believe Kevin Spacey - were mentioned as having been on Epstein's private jet or visiting his private island. Someone called David Rodgers - I think he may be a pilot - is reported to have given a statement in which he names several so-called VIPs.

The point is, we don't know whether Andrew has done something illegal or not but he claimed to be an "honourable" man, so surely it would be both "honourable" and wise, if he has committed no crime, to go to the US and provide the investigators with everything he knows about Epstein's contacts. The story is out there now and, unless he knows there is the possibility of further facts emerging that will contradict his claim of innocence, he might as well go to the US and show he is unafraid of being questioned.

Eloethan. As they have all this proof why private prosecutions ?

The law should step in and prosecute those named including
Andrew.

Are we to assume that every man photographed with his arm round a woman's waist at a party slept with her?
That would include most of us, I would think.

Apparently, there is a great deal of further evidence/statements in a sealed package and a judge is deliberating on whether it should be opened or not.???

eazybee. I agree , a photograph is not proof.

As these girls were underage why no prosecutions ?

Grapefruitpip, I understand your point about various sorts of abusers. That is true. There seems to be an ethnic variation of male predation on women, and there is a social class variation too.

My point is both of those attitudes arise from belief that power entitles. Men and to a lesser extent women may divided into one of two classes: those who protect the weak, and those who exploit the weak.

Alexa if as you claim - ethnic variation and social class variation, why is most sexual abuse carried out in the home by Male relatives and friends

annie two points

* have you never heard of the authorities here ( and I’d guess in the US) failing victims and the victims then having to go down the private prosecution path? There are many examples of this and often it’s the only was that victims/families can keep the issue in the public eye. Hillsborough is a high profile example of this but there are many more. Re JE because of his power and influence ( and no doubt the high profile powerful people that he provided young girls for) there would be every suspicion that the authorities would want to close down any investigation as soon as possible. You only have to read the details ( which I’m sure you have) of his original case, the severity of the original charges, the plea bargain and the circumstances under which he served his ‘time’) to realise how victims might well feel they might be denied justice

*second (for you and eazy) whoever said a photo was proof of having slept with someone. What a truly ridiculous comment. A photo is proof that they were together at a party ( even if PA can’t remember it) and it’s certainly in this case, proof of his serious lack of judgement and general sleaze - VR was only 4 years older than his daughter fff

Anniebach, I believe your are correct most abuse is carried out in the home.

I believe that power corrupts. When the powerful one abuses the weaker one the powerful one whoever they are is corrupt.

True Alexa , so not just class or ethnic variation,

There was a prosecution in 2008 on lesser charges. Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but Epstein was in prison awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges when he died. He can't be tried now because he's dead, but possibly other people could be.

As to the 2008 prosecution, from the Perversion of Justice website:

"Palm Beach County Courthouse

June 30, 2008

"Jeffrey Edward Epstein appeared at his sentencing dressed comfortably in a blue blazer, blue shirt, jeans and gray sneakers. His attorney, Jack Goldberger, was at his side.

"At the end of the 68-minute hearing, the 55-year-old silver-haired financier — accused of sexually abusing dozens of underage girls — was fingerprinted and handcuffed, just like any other criminal sentenced in Florida.

"But inmate No. W35755 would not be treated like other convicted sex offenders in the state of Florida, which has some of the strictest sex offender laws in the nation.

"Ten years before the #MeToo movement raised awareness about the kid-glove handling of powerful men accused of sexual abuse, Epstein’s lenient sentence and his extraordinary treatment while in custody are still the source of consternation for the victims he was accused of molesting when they were minors.

"Beginning as far back as 2001, Epstein lured a steady stream of underage girls to his Palm Beach mansion to engage in nude massages, masturbation, oral sex and intercourse, court and police records show [my emphasis]. The girls — mostly from disadvantaged, troubled families — were recruited from middle and high schools around Palm Beach County. Epstein would pay the girls for massages and offer them further money to bring him new girls every time he was at his home in Palm Beach, according to police reports.

"The girls, now in their late 20s and early 30s, allege in a series of federal civil lawsuits filed over the past decade that Epstein sexually abused hundreds of girls, not only in Palm Beach, but at his homes in Manhattan, New Mexico and in the Caribbean.

"In 2007, the FBI had prepared a 53-page federal indictment charging Epstein with sex crimes that could have put him in federal prison for life. But then-Miami U.S. Attorney Alexander Acosta signed off on a non-prosecution agreement, which was negotiated, signed and sealed so that no one would know the full scope of Epstein’s crimes. The indictment was shelved, never to be seen again.

"Epstein instead pleaded guilty to lesser charges in state court, and was required to register as a sex offender. He was sentenced to 18 months incarceration.

"But Epstein — who had a long list of powerful, politically connected friends — didn’t go to state prison like most sex offenders in Florida. Instead, the multimillionaire was assigned to a private wing of the Palm Beach County stockade, where he was able to hire his own security detail. Even then, he didn’t spend much time in a cell. He was allowed to go to his downtown West Palm Beach office for work release, up to 12 hours a day, six days a week, records show.

"He was permitted to hire his own private psychologist for his required sex-offender counseling, and after his release from jail, his subsequent year of probation under house arrest was filled with trips on his corporate jet to Manhattan and to his home in the U.S. Virgin Islands — all approved by the courts with no objections from the state.

"On the morning of his sentencing in 2008, none of Epstein’s victims were in the courtroom to protest his soft jail term or the unusual provisions of his incarceration and probation — and that was by design."

I and others are not saying that a photograph of Andrew with his arm around the girl is evidence he had committed an illegal act. I am saying it is evidence that he knew the girl - though he says he "can't remember". Since it appears that there were many girls going in and out of Epstein's various residences, it is quite possible that he doesn't remember, but whether he remembers her or not, he knew her - and Ghislaine Maxwell is also in the photograph. The fact that she has made herself, or has been made, scarce demonstrates that there are several people with something to hide in this matter.

As for Epstein's supposed suicide, it is astonishing that a person who had already made one attempt at taking his life and who was supposed to be checked on every 30 minutes was in fact not checked for at least 3 hours. Also that there was apparently no CCTV footage from the area around his cell. The latest news is that two prison guards have been arrested. Whether they were paid off to ignore the suicide watch procedure or whether they just didn't do their job properly may be difficult to know. But they would have to be pretty stupid not to realise that the death by suicide of this man would most certainly put the spotlight on them and their dereliction of duty.

2 prison guards are to be charged, they were suppose to be checking Epstein every 30 minutes, they falsified their records.

A forensic pathologist hired by Epsteins’s brother has said
- he more likely died from being strangled.

Thank you Eloethan

Yes the photograph is proof they met, it does not prove as claimed by a poster they were together at a party.

Best I add to my posts - the above post is not defence of Andrew ? and does not support abuse in any form, be it physical or verbal

I may be reading too much into the photograph but one thing that jumps out at me is Ghislaine Maxwell’s smile in the background - smug? Controlling? Indulgent? Triumphant? Whatever it is, I don’t like it!