Prince Andrew

No Iam I have not criticised, I do question .

There is the tragedy of victims of abuse not being believed, there is the tragedy of false accusations .

True we may be wrong about parents , you have not said this
about the parents of the alleged abuser here.

Never mind the parents Anniebach. We have no idea whether the parents neglected or sexually exploited their children. We can make all kinds of judgements but we may be very wrong.

A recent tv drama called A Confession, showed the unsuccessful efforts made by one mother to keep her daughter safe. Police and social workers involved with families all too often come across so called 'good families' where one child has followed a path leading them into sexual exploitation.

I don't recall accusing you of saying JE isn't a sex offender, I do recall a number of posts where you have been very critical of his victims.

I don’t recall anyone saying there were doubts that Epstein was
a sex offender.

12 years old, the parents should be prosecuted

Suziewoozie's summary of JE's offences confirms beyond any doubt that he was a sex offender. That he arranged for young girls possibly aged 12 upwards (and one boy so far identified) to be procured, groomed and sexually exploited by him and his associates.

Why the focus on whether or not his victims are seeking compensation from his estate. Surely, the focus needs to be on establishing the facts, compensating those who were trafficked and abused and also learning from this dreadful situation.

Those of us who have experience of working with such young people are in no doubt how hard it is for them to get out of that life with their mental health and self belief in a reasonable place.

Has the Queen kicked PA out of B Palace? According to the Daily Mail. I thought she was supporting him. I can’t keep up!

What has concerned me is - Andrew gave the interview, the following day a new alleged victim made a statement to the media , she was accompanied by a lawyer, she said

Epstein invited her to the island where she could meet Andrew but she said no.

Such a coincidence this was the day following Andrew saying
he had been to the island

No, I am not defending Andrew

And thanks Annie.

@pink I said that Giuffre may be after a payout.

Not judging at all - pursuit of money is the only action that seems to make sense. (I'm talking about any potential action brought against PA, by the way).

If the alleged sex took place in this country then there's no case to answer. No crime has been committed. However - and I AM surmising here - if she feels that, by claiming she was procured/trafficked etc - then there could be a suggestion that the alleged sex wasn't consensual. I'm not a lawyer, so no expert, but....that would shed a completely different light on the matter.

Americans sue in civil cases - maybe she thinks she has a chance with PA? He's wealthy and high profile enough to be a target. Or maybe she's hoping she'll be paid to keep schtum? As I said, just surmisin'

Looking at facts isn’t being defensive, not agreeing with every word in posts is not being defensive.

The young woman is not after just money but even if she was so what?

It is a good thing that this issue is being looked at so closely.

Maybe this publicity can help young women to be less naive and instead to be more vigilant .
It is a tough age when you think you are strong and know it all and you don't yet know how despicable some men can be.

Isn't there a famous saying about If you want to really know a person then take a look at their friends

That is very telling

Why are Coolio and Old so defensive on this topic?

And anyway that’s up to her

It can help when there’s been injustice

Money does equal or buy justice,

Well that’s because they think she is - how dare she have allowed herself st 15 to be manipulated by GM friend of GM ( visitor to several royal residences) and then used and trafficked? And now how dare she want justice ? Damn cheek

I find it offensive that posters are referring to this young woman, Virginia Roberts Guiffre, by her surname as if she is a criminal.

old and Cool do you have daughters? Are you men?

I agree Giuffre is after a payout , hew lawyer made it obvious

This is just gossip.

Out with a meal with friends last evening, and one of them has a cousin who lectured Andrew when he was in the navy.

Said cousin said that you could find a more arrogant or disliked by absolutely everyone bloke.

Yes, coolio, plea bargaining is not great.

Having said that, the authorities may well have thought that there was no great purpose in locking him up.

And yes, given that JE can't be tried, payouts may well be made. It'll be interesting to see what happens next!

And I still reckon Giuffre is after a payout.

The Royal Philharmonic have just ditched Toxic Andy. The dominoes are falling pretty rapidly now. He’s toast.

Don’t tell me to leave it. I’ll call you out when I wish

You are, Suzi. Let’s leave it at that. Thank you.

I am not twisting words when I say that you think it’s fine or at worst stupid for PA to be friends with a paedophile

Suzi
I can see that we will not agree and that you tend to pick up and misinterpret. Sex offenders would not be my choice of friends but may be others, it’s their lives, they can live with it, I personally couldn’t.

I am quite aware who PA is I do not need you to patronise. He is guilty of nothing at the moment except stupidity. He does not take from the coffers but from the Queen who has a private income and made sure some years ago that none of her family take from the coffers except when doing Royal duties for the country.

You have your opinion, I have mine please do not twist words