"Regressive and sexist"

I doubt that trans women are more vulnerable than women.They are still a small minority.
In real numbers woman are more vulnerable.

Reading the article about the Californian prison it does read that men are opting to identify as female in order to cause harm to females.

I think it is true that female safe spaces are under threat. Take the Hampstead swimming pools. There are three. It was always one for men, one for women and one for families and mixed bathing.
Now the Womens pool is forced to accept any man who says he identifies as a woman. So basically that safe space has now disappeared.

I don’t prefer the term ‘cis-women'. I’m a woman and my sex does not need a prefix to qualify it.

No, nor do I. It is another example of the trans lobby minimising the real experience of being female. Men can be women just by saying so, but women have to qualify their existence.

None of this will be doing anything to help genuine trans people, who must be suffering as a result.

trisher, this is more than a small problem to the women being assaulted. don't they matter. there are many more cases all over the world. do you really not know about any.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/09/one-50-prisoners-identify-transsexual-first-figures-show-amid/

www.nationalreview.com/2019/06/californias-transgender-prison-policy-is-a-disaster-for-women/

You say it's a small problem, Trisher. Lesbians beg to differ. In any case, surely it's easier to get these issues sorted while they are, as you claim, still small, then everyone knows where they are.

Any sexual activity should always be consensual. The real point about this is that actually you are discussing something which is already happening, which is largely unenforceable (is anyone really going to ask someone to prove their gender by exposing their genitals?) and which only applies to a very small percentage of the people involved. For some reason this has been blown up into a huge problem. It isn't.

there are numerous cases of women/girls being cornered, molested, assaulted by transwomen in female only spaces, eg prisons, changing rooms, etc.
here is one

www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/female-spaces-need-better-protection-after-trans-woman-sex-assault-on-girl-say-campaigners-1-4868945

anyone can now say they are a woman, whether they have any genuine interest in being one or not, and assert their right to enter and use female-only spaces.
this is obviously open to abuse.
women and girls are vulnerable in this situation. and I don't think it's being horrible or transphobic to say so.

And what SueD said. Can you really defend Stonewall’s position on a lesbian’s refusal to have sex with a ‘lesbian’ with a penis as transphobic? Can you really ?

trisher you know it’s about far more than toilets and about far more than safety. Why not 3 categories for everything - male, female and neutral. Anyone could choose to use the third one and leave the other two for natal men and women. Why are we being erased?

Trisher do you think lesbians who don't wish to have sex with a woman who has a penis are transphobic?

All this fear mongering is so unnecessary. Of course women who are afraid of abuse should be protected, but so should trans-women and they are much more likely to suffer abuse (41% have according to Stonewall). There is no threat to safe spaces- Read the real story assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf
And men dressed as women are already using the ladies loos. If someone could post a story about them abusing women I would like to read it.

Elegran and pinkquartz, I agree with the statement too.
I’m afraid that I regard anyone with a penis as male, and until that organ is removed they are male in my opinion. In fact science regards them as male regardless, because if they have XY chromosomes rather than XX chromosomes, then they are male. I don’t want to share female only spaces with people who have a penis. I’m sorry if that offends anyone, but the idea of sharing a female changing room for example, with a person who has a penis is not something I can accept, and nor should I have to. If the toilets are mixed, I’ll share, if not, no thank you.

elegran

"That is not equality, it is the supremacy of the strongest (due to their testosterone-conditioned combative instincts) and the most vocal."

I totally agree with this. And having read a book written by a trans woman that what how I ended up thinking.....it was aggressive and entitled in the way that men often are.
Like the ones that mansplain. No real insight to what a woman feels anywhere. I won't say which book.

And even if they ( the men) are not predatory, women and girls are entitled to dignity and privacy.

women and young girls need safe places.
Because men are predatory

And that describe the vast majority of ‘trans-women’. Trans-sexuals ( ie those who’ve had surgery) are a small minority.

I did see that, Suziewoozie. Good move on their part.

Grapefruitpip a woman with a penis is a natal-male who now identitifies as female but has not had any surgery so retains the genitals they were born with.

a woman who possesses a penis

how does that work?

I don’t know if it’s been discussed elsewhere but LGB people have split from Stonewall on this issue SueD and quite rightly so imo. Stonewall have turned into TRA bullies

I don’t prefer the term ‘cis-women*. I’m a woman and my sex does not need a prefix to qualify it.

Yes, the case went against Yanev, as I said.

Let's not forget the lesbians who are now labelled as transphobic if they don't want to have sex with a woman who possesses a penis.

I believe that that case was lost by the complainant (Yanniv), Elegran; but I share your views on the subject.

I have no issue with people transitioning, or with trans people being supported and protected from abuse. I understand that ther lives are difficult, and I have no wish to make them more so.

What I do object to is men 'self-defining' as women, and insisting on the right to use women-only spaces. Women (or cis-women for those who prefer) have fought long and hard to get protection under law from sexual abuse and objectification, and all that is being swept aside in the name of trans rights.

As for threatening women - on a different thread we learn that there has just been a decision in Canada against the part-time-trans woman who was (essentially) blackmailing unwilling beauticians into handling his genitalia by booking a waxing appointment as a female without mentioning that it was for his definitely male scrotum. Those who declined were threatened with expensive legal action against them for breaking the equality law and several ceased to work in the field at all as a result. He/she had repeated this action several times.

You are right that it is important to protect everyone from abuse, and not just that but the fear of abuse. With all the current emphasis on the legal rights of trans women (as opposed to the more casual acceptance of what were regarded as "a few eccentrics") it is not surprising that some women, who have had bad experiences with men, should fear that their protection could be weakened. It isn't their fault that they just don't trust men - any men.

There has been a case where a "whole" man chose to be sent to a female prison rather than a male one - he/she was safe from rape, but in his male persona was working his way through seducing the vulnerable women imprisoned with him. Don't bother telling me about the lesbians doing the same thing - that is another problem in closed one-sex/gender communities, but not what is under discussion at the moment

Trans women under threat also need protection, of course, the threat is not just one way. I heard from one trans woman how, when in a bar with what she thought were friends, her drink was spiked for the fun of watching her fall off her stool - she suffered a cracked skull and an enormous loss of confidence.

But men have been dressing and appearing as women for centuries Elegran and I know of no cases where they have interfered with or threatened natal women. There may now be very vocal advocates for trans-women but it isn't their fault if abused women have difficulty demanding their rights. There are no doubt trans gender women who have the same problem. It is important to protect all people who are subjected to abuse and violence, no matter what the gender of the abused or the abuser.