"Regressive and sexist"

"I think the gender debate is so infuriating, not just because TRA’s assertions and demands are often crazy, but because they don’t even agree with themselves. The whole thing is contradictions, conflation and incoherence. So I have some questions"
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1190769090056589312.html

Thank you FarNorth for including this link. It is again (like the Simon Fanshawe interview), what I was struggling to say but I am too clumsy to say it this well.
Also I am on the outside of things these days While
both of these men have their fingers on the pulse
It was a real relief to read this and Simon Fanshawe

He says what I have been trying to say for ages.

I nam happy for people to live as they want to live. However, why shoudl the minoritys always have free reign to bully the majority? This is what is now happening. Bullying, wither way, is wrong. Women, those who were born that way, especially those who have suffered abuse, should be able to feel safe in female only spaces. I fully support transgender rights, but not at the expense of the rights of someone else. Anyone going through the process of gender reassignment, should have our support, but it shoudn't be so damn easy for people to just 'identify' as someone else. I identify as rich and skinny - however - I still can't fit into those size 10s or afford that tropical island. A bit of understanding flowing back the other way wouldn't hurt.

The Simon Fanshawe article is brilliant.

It was hard in the days when people had to hide their truth.

It also reminded me that you don't who people really are on here.

trisher, have you read what Simon Fanshawe had to say - posted above?

I don’t agree that the position re trans rights is analogous to gay rights. Trans women are wanting to take rights away from me - decriminalising homosexuality, legislating for same sex marriage didn’t impact on my right to practice heterosexual sex nor marry someone of the opposite sex. But the TRAs want to take away my safe spaces -they are hell bent on taking away my privacy, dignity, safety.

Perhaps things will settle down as it becomes clearer that trans people are no more one homogenous mass than that homosexuals are, as was feared, a single army of clones all hell-bent on seducing every straight man they met and sullying the pure minds of innocent children.

I still think it better that potential problems are identified and solutions found before legislation is passed.

I was thinking about the long history of LGB rights and how it was alleged when the law was changed and homosexuality was not illegal how this would destroy society and the family. That there was to begin with a huge focus on promiscuity, and the bathhouses and clubs opened. But over the years things have calmed down and now same sex couples are sometimes more lasting than hetero marriages. So I wonder if we are now seeing the extremist point of trans genderism and things will gradually settle down.

"I think the gender debate is so infuriating, not just because TRA’s assertions and demands are often crazy, but because they don’t even agree with themselves. The whole thing is contradictions, conflation and incoherence. So I have some questions"
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1190769090056589312.html

These questions are worth considering.

Sorry FarNorth still better twice than never?

This is a good read
www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm?fbclid=IwAR279CjTxy_1mm-UJOwhspawZ-Qy34Yx2HRBqM2W_ES2W1j9_SkauXOdYeA

And that is the dilemma.

A trans woman trying on women's clothes cannot go into the men's changing room, because the attendants will see a woman and bar the way

Really?

But the attendants won't bar the way into the women's changing room to a man who looks exactly like a man but says the magic words "I am a woman".

So the transwoman simply has to say "I am a man".

Here is an excellent article giving the views of Simon Fanshawe OBE, a co-founder of Stonewall UK.

www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm?fbclid=IwAR0LxnqvJjXiPnqgkjsiS_PgyElYpYMAPtxbJCSlbPqKzuGkoEsjSwaLnPY

Fanshawe believes that the Stonewall of today is undermining the rights of lesbians and putting women and girls at risk by “unthinkingly” merging the rights of lesbians and gays with those of trans people

A third set of toilets labelled "mixed sex" could be useful to everyone when there is a long queue for the ladies and only a few mintes before the interval ends!

I would suggest third spaces male female and mixed sex. All laws are difficult to enforce, look at the laws around rape, that doesn't mean we don't try to make good laws. I would also suggest we start challenging the misogyny that is the term living as a woman.

I have every sympathy with the difficulties trans women face and I am sure I will have unknowingly come across them in my day to day life. If someone I knew felt the need to change sex I would support them 100%.

However, whilst the majority of trans women are not a danger to women there have been documented occasions when some claiming to be trans have carried out assaults on women. Is this to be looked upon as an acceptable risk?

The majority of men do not present a risk to women but they are not allowed into women only spaces because a minority may take advantage

Galaxy So what do you suggest for trans-women who have, as a legal requirement to change their gender, to live as women for at least 2 years. That would seem to include using facilities for women. (They already are by the way). It's a catch 22 situation.
Some men with a penis are dangerous most are not, Some trans women with a penis are dangerous most are not. Some women are violent and dangerous most are not.
And even if you have legislation and spaces which ban trans women how are you going to regulate them?

Trisher, my husband is not allowed in female spaces, this does not mean anyone is saying he is dangerous, it means because he is a man he is by the nature of his sex a higher risk, and there is no way of telling which men are a risk. Its one of the reasons why we have sex segregation. If going in a changing room with people with a penis is risky for transwomen,(as mentioned by a previous poster) how is it not dangerous for women to be in changing rooms with people with a penis. The arguements are so illogocal.

The only way to address the matter is to pass laws that provide and fund safe space for everyone-

Barack Obama made the grave mistake of too frequently catering to specific groups and issues- Those that he disenfranchised became Trump's base supporters- And vile as he might be his base is formidable- Despite the fact that more oppose him, he's enough support to win the electoral college yet again and go on to serve a second term-

People parachute from their preferred parties when their representatives neglect to acknowledge and address what's important to their supporters - Its what happened in the Democratic party last election and there stands a good chance of it happening again unless everyone's concerns matter-

Trisher

I am still feeling that you are lecturing me!
How stupid do think I am ?
Do I come across like a a**hole?
I never said everyone was the same NEVER

OK so some people have issues...NOT ME

I made a mistake while typing probably due to the pain meds I need.
I made a mistake by saying no-one so I will rephrase
" I am not objecting to Transwomen,"

I have no control over anyone else.

Please stop talking down to me now please.

I call women's responses to TRA attacks self-defence; others like to call it aggression. That's misogyny in action.

When the Green Party have done away with 'Women' members in favour of 'Non-men', I'm outa there.

pinkquartz I haven't accused you of anything. I pasted exactly what you have said which was "No-one" but assuming all trans women are the same isn't respecting them. They are just like other people some are good, some are bad and most are just living their lives as best they can.

In a nutshell, I'm ok with individuals that have had a sex change- The rest is just too gray to be ok with beyond respecting someone's identity- But that's as far as it goes unless of course I have have to forfeit my own identity because it's the law-

It's equally awful on abortion law-