Challenging thinking

A very timely post given the problems of today. It's certainly given me food for thought. I think I've become more entrenched in my views over the last few years and this thread is a bit of a wake up call.

I married into another culture and am very happy. However, to try to get a balanced view of world events, we watch BBC World, news, Euro news, Al Jazera and TRT. Very interesting to see how the same event is reported so very differently.

I try to listen properly to others way of thinking and it gets easier the older I get....but my husband had his opinions engraved in stone by his parents by the age of 14..... he hasn’t read a book since leaving school and only glances at newspaper headlines ...never delves into anything too deeply. To try and open a conversation with him on any subjects is to put you in fear of your sanity, as all you hear from him is his bigoted parents voices, coming as from the grave. So disappointing to know you are married to someone who clings like glue to the past( which was always better) his parents views ( which were wrong) ...and cringes at the thought that he in consequence of his upbringing could ever be wrong. I pity him and all people like him. My children and grandchildren have taught me so much more than my parents ever did. We need to listen to those coming after us...they talk more sense than we ever did at their age. Open your ears and minds.

I was brought up to always try to listen to the other person's point of view before forming or expressing an opinion. Rather strange really, as in later life my parents certainly did not practise what they had preached when we were young.

I left home at 17, going from an intensely Conservative family, politically speaking where old-fashioned views about absolutely everything were the norm slap bang into the middle of the Students' revolt, so I spent the next 10 or so years surrounded by those who were either socialists or communists or either combined with Women's Lib.

I have always felt that my student days did me good, forcing me to think for myself, to see the good in many points of view that my parents and their friends condemned and often when I still held by what I had been taught at home, being forced to find reasonable grounds of my own for holding fast to these opinions.

Now, aged 67, I sometimes have to try very hard not to become hidebound, but hope and trust that I am still capable of seeing others points of view.

I think it's important to accept that other people have opinions that might be different to you but that doesn't mean yours or right or theire are wrong, it just means that yours are right for you. And it's always a good idea to listen to other people's opinions, you never know what they might say that just hadn't occurred to you. I do avoid main stream media though because I believe they're all biased and I try and research elsewhere.

I'm baffled by how people with children manage not to come across and possibly take on board different views.

I like to think I take other people's views and opinions, and think about them, and don't automatically assume I am right and they are wrong. Like growing up, surely somethings change in us, and it must be a very stubborn and blinkered person who stays with their childhood beliefs and opinions. My late Mother was brought up by lovely parents,, but like many of his place and generation, my grandfather was anti-Catholic ( West Coast of Scotland); as a result my Mother was very relaxed anxious that this would not be part of our upbringing. I have found myself at times in the company of people I really like but who have very different political views; both sides respect the other's opinion/agree to disagree. My own politics have changed since my adult children have introduced their views into the mix. The one thing that is non-negotiable is racism, I will either politely ask the person to stop as I don't like to hear such views, or I will excuse myself and then do my best to avoid them.

An open mind is such a gift and I constantly aspire to same when I find myself entrenched in some theory or other. My current frustration is people who interrupt when I'm listening to someone speaking eloquently but simply on a subject I'm interested in. I'm daily finding the empty barrel syndrome to be very true. I find a very peculiar pleasure (and it IS a pleasure) when I realise, by persuasion of opinion and fact, that I've changed my thoughts on some matter that I had held dear for ages. With the current flux of the political state in our country I have found it helpful to take a step back and concentrate on matters more local. NEVER thought I'd hear myself saying that. Raised voices or any sort of bullying of opinion are an absolute turn off for me every time.

Definitely an interesting thread. But personally I'd struggle to be friends with someone who thought it was a good idea to give tax breaks to the rich, while figures for homelessness rise. Similarly men and women telling me that the equalising state pension ages was fairly implemented. No problem with the equality issue (except women's pension pots average under half men's) but women born 5 March 1953 reached state pension age Jan 2016, but if born 5 March 1954 pension Jul 2019, that's 3 and a half years later.
I'm neither rich nor homeless, and I was born in 1952. These examples, in my mind, are morally wrong. But, like climate change, generate endless 'discussion'.

I think things through and come to a decision. I tend not to take on the thoughts of others after I have thought things through myself. I refuse to have discussions about politics....hahaha I guess I am rather stubborn.

Why would you be swayed by other people's opinions?

If someone had an opinion which differed from mine and presented me with facts to back up that opinion, facts which were not previously known to me, then I could change my mind or at least modify my opinion.

Has your DGS presented facts to you recently, Gonegirl, which have altered your opinions in any way or were you always in tune with the views he holds?

I love to challenge my thinking and do constantly. I wouldn’t just say my views evolve but me as a person evolves. I think it’s a terrible shame to live a whole life and not evolve. I changed religion a few times before finding one thats suits me, married into three different cultures, live abroad, and had 1000’s clients from all walks of life! I also did my MA two years ago challenging my brain to think. I love the diverse richness of this world. I have friends who eat with their hands and others who would be disgusted doing that , I have friends who love a two hour bath and others who think sitting in your ‘dirty’ water unhygienic. I have relatives who drool over bacon and friends who would vomit. Friends who yearn for raw fish for breakfast whilst I’d faint if I had to eat it. I might not like a bigot or a lead head but I still might find them very fascinating. Something to be learned from everyone and everything.
As for news, well things are not always as they appear to be. Genocide looking like civil war, destroying countries to create new markets, things are no longer obvious so we must think.

Thank you, what an interesting thread. I definitely think my views and opinions have changed over the years. Looking back I think my opinions as a young person were quite fixed and black and white in their outlook. I feel for my poor parents, I imagine that I was quite insufferable! The older I get the more tolerant I have become and more accepting and understanding of other view points. I do hope that this outlook continues ?

I have often changed my views aftre someone has put forward aspects of a problem I have not thought of.

The economist John Maynard Keynes has two sayings attributed to him. Both may be apocryphal but, nevertheless bear thinking about. One is that when accused of altering his views on an economic question, he replied: “When I'm wrong, I change my mind.

He is also credited as saying when asked a similar question “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”

There are some views which are so ingrained that people cannot think objectively about them and do not know they are speaking received opinions. Racism and climate change are two which spring to mind. On this thread there has been a lot of virtue signalling about racism, for example.

Lilyflower there are some people who don’t realise that a belief in ‘virtue signalling ‘ is an ingrained view that they cannot think objectively about and that such a belief is actually a receiived opinion generally held by people who hold right of centre views and who also think there is something called ‘political correctness’

When I was at university there was module that ran throughout the course called, 'Power, Oppression and Discrimination'. The module exposed me to many, many things that I had never given thought to and encouraged me to identify some of my own prejudices and biases. It gave me a much better understanding of how individuals, families, communities and societies can come to be discriminatory and oppressive (think Hitler's Germany or segregation in the USA).

I think I've been very fortunate to marry a man who is not only a deep thinker himself, but who also encourages others, including me, to really grapple with thoughts and ideas. We have many very interesting conversations when we're together or with our wider family, which we often are. Of course our parents and children are not all in agreement with each other, or with us, about everything, but our discussions are one of the joys of our family life.

There are some interesting views on this thread.

I don't see any evidence of virtue signalling about racism Lilyflower.

Perhaps other people's families are not that opinionated, kittylester.
I know that mine are (is?) and views are constantly challenged!

I have some opinions where I would not be swayed by anything.
I am prepared to listen to the views of people on subjects which I am not passionate about.
And many of my opinions I keep to myself because they are controversial.

suziewoozie we clearly have very different ideas of what virtue-signalling means.

To me it means someone parading virtous beliefs in a loud way Because they want to look good even though their words and their actions do not exactly tally. The virtous beliefs they parade can be staunch socilaist or right wing conservative. It is anyone trying to look virtous in front of a peer group who will approve of what they say (but probably do not do).

It is done equally across the political spectrum, by both right wing conservatives as well as left wing socialists and Labour supporters and both are pretty equally accused of it by people on all sides of the political spectrum.

I have seen no right wing conservative bias in those accused or accusing people of virtue-signalling

Monica my post about virtue signalling was just a reaction to the mean spirited post of Lily about my virtue signalling because of my example of my neighbour. She used the phrase ‘virtue signalling’ in what I believe was a totally unnecessary and inappropriate way. When this phrase is used on GN ime it is often used by those of more right of centre views. Its actually quite ironic that on a thread like this a phrase like that should have been used.

My dear GS has just gone to Oxford to university and the one thing i said to him before he went is that this is a golden opportunity not only in terms of education but to have his 'world' broadened by many different kinds of people and their opinions. I agree with the OP we can be very influenced by those we are with daily and in our 'circle' . I would have loved to have had the opportunity to go to university and had my mind exposed to so many different thing, opinions, 'class differences' lifestyles and cultures. I really hope my GS finishes as a man with an open mind and one who questions everything.

Well done to your GS travels for his efforts to get into one of the best universities in the world.His hard work has paid off and I hope he enjoys his time there.

I also studied relatively recently and fascinated by the many and various epistemes that there are. Different styles of thinking based on different perspectives and often with specific vocabularies. It helps when trying to critically appraise a topic and consider whose opinion might be most valuable. Cross reference that with basic psychology and background information and it can be very confusing when you can see all sides of a situation or problem!
Can minds be too open? Serious question. Could that lead to apathy?

What an interesting thread. I aspire to be open minded. I will challenge views that offend me, eg explaining why I haven’t laughed at “ jokes” targeting people who differ from the joker. I have been told that these are “just a bit of fun” but it doesn’t feel funny to me to ridicule others.
Until a decade ago I was a city dweller and could choose to spend time with people who shared ( largely ) my world view. I am gradually learning to rub along with the people I find myself with rather than avoiding most of the population of my small, circa 3k , rural town. I think, as a result I am becoming a more tolerant person. I may be offended by what someone says but try, now, to respectfully say so rather than dismiss or be confrontational. Most issues are complex and so are most people. My capacity to think has always been something I have valued. My listening and thinking continues to enrich my life. I feel sorry for those whose opinions are fixed but will occasionally wonder if their simple lives are enviable.