a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality?

Put CeCe Telfer into a google images search.

Look at her beside her female compeditors. Just look and tell me that there is no difference between transwomen and women and they should have full access to womens sport just as soon as they feel they will do better there due to their natural advantages like a woman! Whatever the hell that feeling is..

In the states athletics is more than a sport/hobby you do for glory, womens access to funding for education and their whole futures ride on athletic scholarships. Sports offer a route out of poverty. Women can gain employment and coaching opportunities that way too. Placing on front of scouts is really a big deal.. its not just a bit of fun..

CeCe was competing in male races and not doing great, then switched to womens races and is taking top spots from women.

Now tell me that unless you are a transwoman the issue is none of your business...

Yeah, really funny.

TerriBull - this made me laugh out loud for the first time in ages!
I must have a weird sense of humour. Thanks so much.

I read one of the poster's links to a blog written by a woman who took part in the Protest re. The Hampstead Pond debacle on Mumsnet, and, if the situation wasn't so damn ludicrous, it would almost be funny.

Transwomen, which means anyone identifying as women but could still have male genitalia have been sanctioned to use the female only pond and changing area. However, when a group of women demonstrated by using the "male only pond" with fairly obvious disguises, false beards and moustaches etc., and on the premise that they were "identifying as men" they were met with a barrage of complaints by some of the men swimming there, one or two made the comment "but men wouldn't be allowed to use the women only pond" to which they responded but they can and they do and that's the point. Most of the men were pretty mystified by that, a couple sympathised with them. The final upshot of their endeavours, the police were called and and turfed (pardon the pun) the women out.

So there we have it! It's just amazing how female only spaces are being infiltrated whilst men seem to manage to hang on to their single sex spaces male only clubs (The Garrick) and the like as if they are still living back in the 19th century, where women knew their place, although I imagine they would have at least had their "powder rooms" or whatever they called them back then to themselves.

Here is an interesting artyicle about the idea that using a person's 'preferred pronouns' is a simple courtesy that we should be willing to follow.

It's called Pronouns Are Rohypnol, and it includes two easy little experiments you can do, to see how you get on with using changed pronouns.

medium.com/@barrakerr/pronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9?_referrer=twitter&fbclid=IwAR1xNQtKXUl5rm3KcbN0oVyevlYrlBd_Oq2J-YfJiX4oINzERKXefyoktQU

"One of the biggest obstacles to halting the stampede over women’s rights is pronoun and preferred name ‘courtesy’. People severely underestimate the psychological impact to themselves, and to others, of compliance."

[.....]

"more than anything, I owe this to girls. I don’t want to play even the tiniest part in grooming them to disregard their natural protective instincts. Those instincts are there for a reason. To keep them safe. They need those instincts intact, and sharp.
And that’s why I won’t use preferred pronouns.
Using Rohypnol on others isn't a courtesy."

Fennel, I think we can't know which is which so transwomen should be regarded with the same degree of caution as men are.

Building regulations for unisex toilets are that they should be single cubicles, each with its own washbasin and with floor to ceiling walls & doors.
This is being disregarded in many establishments which now claim to be 'inclusive'.

Some transwomen do claim to have periods and some are delighted by medical advance that says men may be able to have pregnancies.

There is a heartbreaking but enlightening thread on Mumsnet called something like a Transwidows escape committee. I've been off line for some time but when I read it it cleared up some queries I had and opened my eyes. It is a refuge for women who have or are married to men who have decided to become women. I had never heard of autogynophylia (?sp)before.

It's a long time since I worked so don't know about shared toilets in the workplace, but in our golf club we have male toilets, female toilets, and toilets for the disabled that trans people should use. I think this is fair compromise. I would be uncomfortable with male, female, and trans people all using the same toilet, but I suppose if each cubicle had its own toilet and washing space etc it would be ok.
I don't really understand how a man can 'feel' like they are a woman, and I'm not sure about what I feel that makes me a woman. I know I have a womb and have had babies but they're physical concepts. Do they want to have periods and have babies?

"No-one has attempted to answer the question in my previous post."
So what do you think about it FarNorth?
Just suggesting - all transwomen have still got some vestiges of male , mentally as well as physically. So in situations where their male part is stimulated they revert.

No-one has attempted to answer the question in my previous post.

Here's some more news - the rules for the 'single-sex' swimming ponds at Hampstead now specifically include self-identifying trans people.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/transgender-swimmers-given-full-access-to-hampstead-heath-ladies-pond-a4149531.html?fbclid=IwAR2_nZ7eqYA-rannwQRqZ90xJq9NA7Y31R53mHI6dSMABRdQ7DP18IUUtGU

There are a number of links in this thread giving details of transwomen who are perverts and/or violent criminals.

Are they, perhaps, not real transwomen as we know that there is nothing to worry about from any transwomen?

If they are, in fact, men pretending to be transwomen, how can anyone tell the difference (prior to them being revealed as perverts or violent criminals, that is)?

This has been a very interesting and enlightening thread.
Thanks esp to hyperlinks given I can read for myself what is going on and not just rely on the mainstream media interpretations.
I have had my own views and kept them quiet since reading certain memoirs by transpeople.
In my head it seemed clear that what I was reading had been written by men who did not identify as men. I have kept my thoughts to myself too scared to share them
I am an open person accepting of peoples differences but I don't like BS.
If I see people claiming to be something that I perceive is not honest then I don't believe them, and what is worse is when they attack women........verbally but hey it's back to the old women hating garbage I thought our society had evolved past. I saw a lot of hate directed at women for not accepting trans yet I don't think most women really do mind. I don't, but I also do not want to be attacked for having a real female biology which is what came across in certain memoirs. I perceived the hostility and hate and for the life of me I don't understand why that hate is there.

I fear for the kids being pushed into transitioning. Even if they get their heads straight many will never be able to have kids and they won't know that will hurt until they are older.
We are all grandparents and these trans kids will never know the joys of grandkids unless they are lucky to be in strong relationships with a partner who can have kids.

Anyway it was good to read what people said. Thank you

Cis woman my arse

Says it all really mycat you were teetering a bit on the pedestal but I’ve just straightened you up again now and you’re sitting there firmly once more ??

It’s crazy nonsense in my view.

Bloody men again trying to control women by invading their spaces and facilities and now trying to deny their existence.

Cis woman my arse

So will this now be recorded as a crime by a woman?
And will this person possibly end up in a prison with women and their young children?
And did police have people on the lookout for a woman on the run?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-48338381

Varian the last time I used a public toilet in a service station a notice informed me that the toilets were cleaned and serviced by male and female operatives. I used them anyway. If toilets are cleaned by both sexes and we never know who will be doing it why on earth can't they be used by everyone? Is it more likely someone will cause bother in a workplace toilet than a cleaner will in a public toilet?

The post on page 1 by notanan.

The post doesn't make sense.

most readers would just move on.

Exactly, and that's why most people aren't aware of changes that are being made, and won't notice them until it's too late.

For instance, I work for a large company with branches throughout the UK and it now has an Inclusion Policy to accept the statement of any staff member as to which sex they are, or if they are non-binary.
Staff are free to use the facilities (toilets & changing rooms) that 'match their gender identity' including swapping from one to the other on different days or at different times of day.

Can you really see no possible problem with this, varian?

It is already disgraceful that prisoners are not kept safe from each other what ever the gender.

Notanan2, it would help if your posts were a little more direct in content

Yeahhh potato potato

Prisoners are just prisoners... women incarcerated with men = FIIIINE. It'll be fine.... yeah....

Why should she be sacked ?
What is wrong with being titled a woman , a man, a trans & on & on , we are all Humans for goodness sake, & if that’s causing problems drop all titles/ terms, just use the name that was chosen / given to you at birth, ohh hang , we can change our names if we want to ........ ahh I know let’s just all be nobodies, or perhaps we could have barcodes! But cut each other some slack & use a bit of common sense & kindness.
I am upset children are still starving, not wether my Aunt Fanny is actually Uncle Dick !

I can tell the difference between male and female biology and anatomy if that counts? Wanna know how the skeletal differences within the pelvis give male athletes an advantage no matter how they identify?

Well let’s hope you can tell the difference between coming & going.