a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality?

It's claimed that their identity as real women is not sufficiently validated if they have to use mixed facilities or separate facilities.

Personally, I don't care what their motivation is if it is putting (female) people at risk.

There is no way of telling a 'real' transwoman from a nasty predatory male.

Which causes problems for trans identifying males, like the one quoted above, who wants their own rights and services without pretending they are real women! They identify as male transexuals/cross dressers etc. They want rights and services but they also want to be able to acknowledge that they know they are men. And want better services that include them within mens services/prisons/health services. Not in womens

In that way, self ID and TRA is not only homophobic but transphobic too!

Transgender wings in prisons are not applauded by the TRA community. Nor are single SEX prisons that safeguard trans identifying prisoners within single SEX services.

They applaud the ones that allow trans identifying males into female wings.

Well the truth is that TRAs dont want an india style 3rd gender with its own set of rights and services.

Nor do they want mens toilets converted to gender neutral loos.. its the female spaces under attack.

They dont want their own rights and provisions, which I would support. They want women to not have theirs!

so what is the real agenda for access to female only spaces? as with the Hampstead outdoor swimming pools, the mixed pool wasn't good enough they insisted and won access to the Womens only pool.
I am fearful not for myself now I am older, but for my four granddaughters and other young female relatives and thir friends.
I have no knowledge or guidance for these situations.
Why do TRA want to impose on women only spaces? is there anyone reading this who has an answer?

The recently announced 'Transgender Prison Wing' seems not to be a total answer either.
Here is some of what Debbie Hayton says (Debbie is a transwoman) :

Given the choice between a transgender unit and a low security male prison close to home, I would be tempted to take the latter option, especially if a risk assessment specified a single cell and separate toilet and washing facilities. I would prefer to be assessed according to my risk profile than my transgender status.

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/are-transgender-prison-wings-answer

I don't think that prisoners get much choice about their prison location and may well be housed far from their home area, so Debbie may be being a little optimistic there.

Although Debbie is one of the 'old-school transsexuals' who totally understands women's concerns about safety, it's interesting that Debbie would be willing to reclaim a male identity if that seemed preferable.

But for some reason male TRAs don't want mixed spaces, they just want access to womens sex segregated spaces, why?

If you are going to do away with sex segregated a services, prisons, dorms, camps, toilets... because "gender identity".. call them what they are! Mixed sex!

Thankfully the scouts have realised that it is insane to say you offer sex segregation, when you dont.

Because segregating by gender identity is pure nonsense. Thats just a co-ed space/dorm!

People are realising that supporting self ID is the opposite of supporting diversity and inclusivity

"As a gender non-conforming, previously trans-identified, lesbian woman I have been on and understand both sides of the debate. Trans people want to be respected, and I understand this, but it cannot come at the expense of lesbian and gay men's bodily autonomy.
Stonewall is putting trans people over LGB people, and putting us at risk by doing so."

"Sadly many people won’t sign this because they are scared of reprisals. Who is being oppressed here? I’m a long time Stonewall supporter and they need to think again."

E.g.

"Please think about lesbians. Please consider women’s and girls safety. I want to live in a world where each individual is respected. The 12 year old girl that doesn’t feel comfortable undressing in front of a male body shouldn’t be asked to leave her toilet. It’s wrong. So wrong. Why am I writing this? Why is it needed??."

Transexuals have signed too

"Stonewall's TRA's are doing immense damage to the trust that developed over the last 15 years since the GRA came into being betwern cis-women and Transsexual women / Transwomen.

I speak for many Transsexuals when I say we are noticably different to transgender folk who dress up part time and don't have gender dysphoria driving them to Transition or die.

No way should the rights and protections of GD Transsexuals, and hand in hand, women and girls .. be watered down to give people who'd never qualify for a GRC as it stands, free and easy access.

If "Stonewall's new Trans" army, who out number Transsexuals probably 100:1 , feel they need special protections, fine, I'd agree .. but they need something different to a GRC and GRA protections.

Such a shame the orinal act was called "Transgender Recognition Act 2004" .. it should have been called the "Transsexual Recognition Act 2004".

The misnaming was political to get it through parliament, and that can't be changed .. but a new act with a new name is possible."

E.g.

"Really alarmed at how homophobic Stonewall has become, the notion that a lesbian is being shamed for not including male bodied individuals who identify as female as romantic partners, is frankly frightening."

E.g.

"Feb 24, 2019 I no longer consider Stonewall an organisation that would reflect my needs or safety as a lesbian. I was asked yesterday to consider a hypothetical scenario where I had sex with someone to later find out that they were trans. How would I feel if I enjoyed it? Would I not be gay anymore then?

I replied you are asking me to think about/imagine how I would feel being raped. This is not something I would consent to. In the midst of mentally having to imagine being raped to soothe someone's ego, I had to look up legislation - not for me but in the hope that other younger lesbians who follow me on twitter would perhaps feel safe that if Stonewall will not protect them, the Sexual Offences Act 2003 will. I am not legally qualified. I should not have to do this. Stonewall doesn't care.

In fact the future Stonewall would advocate for would see a trans person not have to disclose. Regardless of what the HRA1998 states, regardless of the SOA 2003 states.

I grew up in a culture where I was used to being called some kind of sexual deviant for my sexuality. I am not. I simply am attracted to women instead of men - that's it. I am not special nor unique for my lesbianism, it is just the way I was born and the way I will ultimately die. I have never wanted special treatment - only equal treatment. That was the gay rights movement I was born around, and saw happening around me. This is not equal treatment.

As it stands today, Stonewall has became a monster and I am not represented by it as a lesbian. It does not stand for me. I would prefer the L was removed from its interests."

Sharing for comments from the lesbian community:

www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

The comments on the stonewall petition from lesbians are upsetting.

sorry here not her

this issue has too much mind bending in it for me to be comfortable. As a friend of lesbians I know that some lesbians do not want to be anywhere near a penis it doesn't matter what the person calls themselves.
Something very wrong her.
It is rape and also something else that is very twisted.

I don't know if female-bodied transmen are trying to pressure gay men, in the same way.

They are not.

Furthermore, men who are sexually oriented to trans identified males with full male biology/bodies are told to identify as straight.

Straight women whose male partners come out as trans are told to identify themselves as lesbians, not as straight women. Oh and btw they were lesbians all along cause the MAN they married was a "real woman" all along....

There already is a word for people who are attracted to transexuals: pansexual. But TRAs want "lesbian" for themselves too..

Stonewall supports the idea that a transwoman has no obligation to disclose TO A PERSON THEY ARE ABOUT TO HAVE SEX WITH whether of not they retain their penis prior to penetration.

Consent ? What ? How is that not rape?

How can you consent to a sex act if the person you are about to have sex with wont tell you what that sex act is going to be?

Given the difficulty of getting rape taken seriously, at all, I should think most women think very hard before going to the police.

Anyone who pressures – or actually forces – another person to have sex with them, regardless of whether they are male, female, trans male, trans female is behaving wrongly and, probably illegally. But I have to say, if I were a lesbian and a trans women forced me to have sex with her/him, I would think very hard before I tried to explain that at the local police station.

It is in the news but, as varian commented earlier, most people just pass it by.

Some male-bodied people claim to be trans women who are lesbians. They then claim that female-bodied lesbians should be willing to have sex with them.

Anyone who objects to this idea is called a bigot and is vilified.

I don't know if female-bodied transmen are trying to pressure gay men, in the same way.

This stuff is beyond weird. why isn't it out in the news?

Who are these people that deny women wanting other women? are they transwomen? gay men? which or what?

so are they saying that men can desire other men but women are only allowed to desire
people with a penis??