a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality?

The post doesn't make sense.

The post on page 1 by notanan.

Varian the last time I used a public toilet in a service station a notice informed me that the toilets were cleaned and serviced by male and female operatives. I used them anyway. If toilets are cleaned by both sexes and we never know who will be doing it why on earth can't they be used by everyone? Is it more likely someone will cause bother in a workplace toilet than a cleaner will in a public toilet?

So will this now be recorded as a crime by a woman?
And will this person possibly end up in a prison with women and their young children?
And did police have people on the lookout for a woman on the run?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-48338381

It’s crazy nonsense in my view.

Bloody men again trying to control women by invading their spaces and facilities and now trying to deny their existence.

Cis woman my arse

Cis woman my arse

Says it all really mycat you were teetering a bit on the pedestal but I’ve just straightened you up again now and you’re sitting there firmly once more ??

This has been a very interesting and enlightening thread.
Thanks esp to hyperlinks given I can read for myself what is going on and not just rely on the mainstream media interpretations.
I have had my own views and kept them quiet since reading certain memoirs by transpeople.
In my head it seemed clear that what I was reading had been written by men who did not identify as men. I have kept my thoughts to myself too scared to share them
I am an open person accepting of peoples differences but I don't like BS.
If I see people claiming to be something that I perceive is not honest then I don't believe them, and what is worse is when they attack women........verbally but hey it's back to the old women hating garbage I thought our society had evolved past. I saw a lot of hate directed at women for not accepting trans yet I don't think most women really do mind. I don't, but I also do not want to be attacked for having a real female biology which is what came across in certain memoirs. I perceived the hostility and hate and for the life of me I don't understand why that hate is there.

I fear for the kids being pushed into transitioning. Even if they get their heads straight many will never be able to have kids and they won't know that will hurt until they are older.
We are all grandparents and these trans kids will never know the joys of grandkids unless they are lucky to be in strong relationships with a partner who can have kids.

Anyway it was good to read what people said. Thank you

There are a number of links in this thread giving details of transwomen who are perverts and/or violent criminals.

Are they, perhaps, not real transwomen as we know that there is nothing to worry about from any transwomen?

If they are, in fact, men pretending to be transwomen, how can anyone tell the difference (prior to them being revealed as perverts or violent criminals, that is)?

No-one has attempted to answer the question in my previous post.

Here's some more news - the rules for the 'single-sex' swimming ponds at Hampstead now specifically include self-identifying trans people.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/transgender-swimmers-given-full-access-to-hampstead-heath-ladies-pond-a4149531.html?fbclid=IwAR2_nZ7eqYA-rannwQRqZ90xJq9NA7Y31R53mHI6dSMABRdQ7DP18IUUtGU

"No-one has attempted to answer the question in my previous post."
So what do you think about it FarNorth?
Just suggesting - all transwomen have still got some vestiges of male , mentally as well as physically. So in situations where their male part is stimulated they revert.

It's a long time since I worked so don't know about shared toilets in the workplace, but in our golf club we have male toilets, female toilets, and toilets for the disabled that trans people should use. I think this is fair compromise. I would be uncomfortable with male, female, and trans people all using the same toilet, but I suppose if each cubicle had its own toilet and washing space etc it would be ok.
I don't really understand how a man can 'feel' like they are a woman, and I'm not sure about what I feel that makes me a woman. I know I have a womb and have had babies but they're physical concepts. Do they want to have periods and have babies?

There is a heartbreaking but enlightening thread on Mumsnet called something like a Transwidows escape committee. I've been off line for some time but when I read it it cleared up some queries I had and opened my eyes. It is a refuge for women who have or are married to men who have decided to become women. I had never heard of autogynophylia (?sp)before.

Fennel, I think we can't know which is which so transwomen should be regarded with the same degree of caution as men are.

Building regulations for unisex toilets are that they should be single cubicles, each with its own washbasin and with floor to ceiling walls & doors.
This is being disregarded in many establishments which now claim to be 'inclusive'.

Some transwomen do claim to have periods and some are delighted by medical advance that says men may be able to have pregnancies.

Here is an interesting artyicle about the idea that using a person's 'preferred pronouns' is a simple courtesy that we should be willing to follow.

It's called Pronouns Are Rohypnol, and it includes two easy little experiments you can do, to see how you get on with using changed pronouns.

medium.com/@barrakerr/pronouns-are-rohypnol-dbcd1cb9c2d9?_referrer=twitter&fbclid=IwAR1xNQtKXUl5rm3KcbN0oVyevlYrlBd_Oq2J-YfJiX4oINzERKXefyoktQU

"One of the biggest obstacles to halting the stampede over women’s rights is pronoun and preferred name ‘courtesy’. People severely underestimate the psychological impact to themselves, and to others, of compliance."

[.....]

"more than anything, I owe this to girls. I don’t want to play even the tiniest part in grooming them to disregard their natural protective instincts. Those instincts are there for a reason. To keep them safe. They need those instincts intact, and sharp.
And that’s why I won’t use preferred pronouns.
Using Rohypnol on others isn't a courtesy."

I read one of the poster's links to a blog written by a woman who took part in the Protest re. The Hampstead Pond debacle on Mumsnet, and, if the situation wasn't so damn ludicrous, it would almost be funny.

Transwomen, which means anyone identifying as women but could still have male genitalia have been sanctioned to use the female only pond and changing area. However, when a group of women demonstrated by using the "male only pond" with fairly obvious disguises, false beards and moustaches etc., and on the premise that they were "identifying as men" they were met with a barrage of complaints by some of the men swimming there, one or two made the comment "but men wouldn't be allowed to use the women only pond" to which they responded but they can and they do and that's the point. Most of the men were pretty mystified by that, a couple sympathised with them. The final upshot of their endeavours, the police were called and and turfed (pardon the pun) the women out.

So there we have it! It's just amazing how female only spaces are being infiltrated whilst men seem to manage to hang on to their single sex spaces male only clubs (The Garrick) and the like as if they are still living back in the 19th century, where women knew their place, although I imagine they would have at least had their "powder rooms" or whatever they called them back then to themselves.

TerriBull - this made me laugh out loud for the first time in ages!
I must have a weird sense of humour. Thanks so much.

Yeah, really funny.

Put CeCe Telfer into a google images search.

Look at her beside her female compeditors. Just look and tell me that there is no difference between transwomen and women and they should have full access to womens sport just as soon as they feel they will do better there due to their natural advantages like a woman! Whatever the hell that feeling is..

In the states athletics is more than a sport/hobby you do for glory, womens access to funding for education and their whole futures ride on athletic scholarships. Sports offer a route out of poverty. Women can gain employment and coaching opportunities that way too. Placing on front of scouts is really a big deal.. its not just a bit of fun..

CeCe was competing in male races and not doing great, then switched to womens races and is taking top spots from women.

Now tell me that unless you are a transwoman the issue is none of your business...

CeCe has a completely different gait to the women she races against. Because biology is real and she has a male pelvis and no amoung of "identifying" will change that!

I now refer you back to the title of the thread....

I'm very unhappy with the practice of calling transwomen 'she' and 'her'.
Have you checked out the article called 'Pronouns Are Rohypnol' which is a few posts back in this thread?

I've read it Far North didn't bother to click on the test about colour because I felt it was just trying to confuse things. I would hope no one would try to impair or influence a girl's protective instincts and that's where I have a problem with this argument. It implies that all women- everyone entitled by birth to be called 'she- are good. That girls never need to be on their guard when encountering natal "shes". But that is wrong there are women who are dangers to other women. They are probably just about as rare as transwomen who are a danger to other women. But they exist so what we should be warning girls about are people who will seek to damage them in any way not just men and trans women. So convincing as this article may seem its very concept is flawed.'

Far North it is a necessity in order to allow us to discuss the issue at all.

The Doxing, death/rape threats and sending police to the door of women who "deadname" and "missgender" make it so.

At the very least threads get pulled/accounts suspended for not using chosen pronouns, sometimes even when talking about a time in the past when the transwomen themselves went by male names and pronouns cause ALWAYS REAL WOMEN or if they regularly switch aliases

No-one knows who you are, on here, so there is no personal danger.
I use a person's name or initials, wherever possible, to avoid using a wrong pronoun.

Trisher your post is so flawed. Transwomen pose the same risk to women as men do, because thats what they are!

Female, properly female killers are so rare that they become household names, but men kill women and other men with such frequency that its often barely news, and sometimes isnt even reported on beyond the court round ups

But its not just major crimes, there is in built mysogyny even in "nice guys" which transwomen activists demonstrate on a regular basis.

Do you swim? I swim. I swim well so I lane swim. Women make themselves small, keep out of the way, men spread out making women have to make themselves small. Not all women at ladies only swim slots are conservative/religous/neurotic, some just want a break from making themselves small when men physically dominate lanes because its exhausting.

Your post is like saying why bother with distinguished cycle lanes you might as well cycle down the middle of a motorway cause sometimes some accidents happen on cycle lanes too.

The other point to remember is that for people who need same sex police officers or nurses or doctors or social workers, they wont request one in advance if they hear all female names/pronouns when they ask who they'll be seeing. And may not have the confidence to do so on the spot when someone clearly male books in.

M&S has a transwoman bra fitter, if you book in now you wont know in advance if you (or your nervous shy 14 year old) will be getting a male or female fitter unless you know that transwomans first name. And if you ask the staff you book with if your fitter will be female, they will say "yes" either way

FarNorth what about the court order made to mumsnet by a transactivist because they were "deadnamed" (i.e. their criminal past was shared with women they were targeting online so that the women would know what they were dealing with & stay safe.....)

Dont overestimate your anominity online. Doxing goes on.