Gdcs' bedtimes - frustration!

I think what works for you as a family works. It’s up to them op if they really wanted changes they could easily make them.

I am only annoyed if parents moan about their child’s bedtime routine or lack of it. If they want kids to settle you need a good predictable routine and some kind firmness.

I am amazed at toddlers still running around at 8/9/10 ‘refusing’ to sleep. Makes you wonder whose going to be in charge of the house as teenagers.

We ran a totalitarian state our way or no way.

All families are different and what works for one may not be what others want. When mine were small I worked full time and the last thing I was going to do was put my kids to bed at 7 like some of my friends did. I'd pick them up from the childminder after work then drive home which took about an hour and a half sitting in traffic. They'd sleep in the car then when we got home one of us would cook dinner while the other entertained the kids. We'd all eat together at the table and would spend time with them playing, watching tv etc they'd go to bed around 10pm the same as us. We wanted to spend as much time as possible with them. They'd sleep at night, on the way to the childminder, have an afternoon nap at the childminders and sleep in the car on the way home. They definitely weren't sleep deprived, we were tired sometimes but honestly wouldn't have changed it for the world. We had kids to spend time with them not so others could spend time with them. Parents need to do what's right for them.

One of my daughter’s children have never had a bedtime. They were both about seven before they ever slept through a night and still apparently need very little sleep.
I find it difficult when these two visit and are up way past my own bedtime. Like many working parents my daughter enjoys their company in the evenings and sees no reason to change.

Witzend "Not now Bernard" illustrates the attitude of many parents to children - they are too busy to bother. The monster in it is quite friendly. Children find the book funny and get the hidden meaning. I've read it with hundreds of children and never met one who thought it was scary. It also touches on the theory that if you ignore your child he may very well turn into a monster. Children adore it.

Not read the whole thread Witzend but generally I have found with GDCs that it you tell them something is going to happen at a certain time, it generally does.
So in the case of bedtimes, this would translate to ‘after your bath we are going to have two stories and then it will be 8 o’clock and then you will go to sleep.’
Obviously if a child is used to being sat with or sung to, you have to accommodate that but be quite firm about how many songs or how long you will sit, otherwise it becomes a power struggle.
I wonder if your DD and SiL both work and there’s a little bit of guilt in there somewhere? If so it’s their problem, not the children’s.

NOTONAN2, no I am not prickly, it was the way you said it and I did say please!

"This type of lighting is now everywhere, tv, phone, laptop, street lights, domestic lighting....everywhere."

Coloured LED light strips are particularly favoured when decorating kids bedrooms.
To tie in with the decor themes.

I don't know how people can live with those led colour strips in their homes. Gives me a headache just to visit!

so please don't have a little dig a me being on the computer before bedtime.

I wasn't!
Gosh you are prickley!
You expressed that you didnt know the term "sleep hygien" so I explsined it to you. At night time. On GN. Gettit? Nah prob not....

Wow Witzend! Proper scary stories -the stuff of nightmares indeed for children!

I’m going to Google that song now and see if I can find it....

Don't remember that one, Urmstongran, but there a book for small children called 'Not Now, Bernard!' about a little boy who keeps telling his parents about a monster.

After the endless 'Not now, Bernard,' parents find that there was indeed a monster, and Bernard has disappeared, presumably eaten up!
Just perfect for a small child's bedtime story - not!!

My own grandparents had masses of books, inc. many from my father's childhood. Some (e.g. William!) were brilliant, but there was one, entitled 'Uncle Arthur's Bedtime Stories' which still makes me shudder to think of it.

One story told of a little boy who'd been to church and was worried by hearing the vicar quote, 'If though shalt not save thy soul tonight, tomorrow thou shalt be slain.'

His mother kindly explained that it meant that you must repent of your sins before going to sleep at night, just in case.

So the little boy duly repented of his sins before going to sleep.

But lo, in the morning, '...he was lying quite still and cold upon the bed! He had died in the night. Of what cause even the doctors were not quite sure.'

But it was OK, because he'd repented of his sins beforehand!

Honestly, I sometimes used to wonder how my father grew up so jolly and straightforward, after bedtime stories like that!! It was never read to us as small children - I only discovered it rather later.

Maybe technology makes it harder for kids to get to sleep these days. LED lighting contains blue light which in nature is there to wake us all up. This type of lighting is now everywhere, tv, phone, laptop, street lights, domestic lighting....everywhere.
There’s too much finger wagging amongst women when it comes to how you deal with your children. A little thought and understanding goes a long way.

I do think exercise during the day in the fresh air zonks out the little grandchildren. Our little 2y old climbing up the steps to the baby slide on the playpark tires her, then home for tea, a bath, a bedtime cuddle watching In the Night Garden sets the scene. I think apart from occasional lapses to fit in with family get together, small children LOVE the routine. I say to our baby ‘and now upstairs for a bath’ and so on, describing each next stage and she nods.

Just had a thought.
Does anyone remember that (to me) creepy song from 50 odd years ago on the radio ‘Marmee! I wanna drink of water....’. I think the mother shouts up to go to sleep. Then ‘Marmee!.... I’m frightened’. Etc.
Used to spook the hell out of me as a child.
Perhaps parents liked it as it made them laugh?
Maybe I was too sensitive!
?

notanan2 I don't have any problem whatsoever ever sleeping which I think is due to plenty of fresh air and exercise. Last night went to sleep as soon as my head hit the pillow and slept like the dead and here I am ready to go again today out into the fresh air cycling. so please don't have a little dig a me being on the computer before bedtime.

I have a 3 year old grandson who stops over one night every week. He has a routine with me so loads of fun and physical stuff in the day. Then 5 o’clock tea, 6 o’clock bath, ceebeevies bed time hour, story hugs and bed. Self settle with his books. I leave. He sleeps.

I had 4 so was strict for bedtime.

Op it’s up to them. They clearly don’t want to change or they would. Up to them entirely.

Personally I find this AP approach to parenting bananas but each to their own.

TVs, Led lighting & phones ipads in bedrooms = bad sleep hygiene. You "clean" your evenings of artificial stimulation and all that.

Barmey "sleep hygiene" is basically the adult version of having a good bedtime routine and includes not being on GN in the evenings (oops )

Seem to remember supernanny was good at this getting to go to sleep on their own. Mine were fine when I was here. Awful, when I worked nights. Husband was a bit useless and let them run around. Guess they know who’s in charge!

Sorry but I have never heard of sleep hygiene. I know what sleep means and I know the meaning of hygiene but can't understand how the two go together. Sorry.
Back to the post, could maybe you have the two children to stay for a week, and try sleep training them. Might be hard on you but it just might work and the parents can then carry on.

Oodles is also right... just because new parents might sometimes off load about being tired, doesnt necessarily mean they want things to change, or want it used as evidence that they are doing it wrong etc...

Many years ago some friends of mine allowed their daughter into their bed every night. By the time she was a teenager she and mum shared a bed and dad was relegated to sleeping in the child's room.
She didn't grow out of it!

I don't read that the parents see it as much of a problem as you do, yes they are tired, but what parent with preschoolers who works isn't. They should be able to admit to being tired without anyone suggesting they do differently. I expect that the children and parents like to have a bit of time together in the evening after being apart all day, and if a parent falls asleep then obviously they needed the sleep. It's completely up to them what they do. the time will come when the parents do have time in the evening together, You did what you felt best with your children, and they are doing what they think best. There are gentle ways to get a bit more time, some children will fall asleep if mum tells them she's going for a wee, and she takes her time, sometimes just being very boring at bedtime is helpful. They'll work out what works for them and their children eventually

Well, we're having them for 4 nights in July, while dd and Sil go to a wedding in France. Gdcs will be sharing a double sofa bed so it'll be interesting to see how that goes! If the younger has given up his daytime nap by then (he'll be very nearly 3) it might well be easier.

They were supposed to share that bed at Christmas, but what (almost inevitably) happened was that one parent ended up in that bed with one of them, and the other Gdc ended up in the proper spare double with parent 2.

Thank you for all supportive posts. I do appreciate them.

My DD - eventually- used ‘sleep training’ - I think there are guides on Google

It seems to be the modern way 3 out of my 4 children have done that with their families.They get no time together,one Mum especially is so exhausted she goes to sleep with her children nearly every night,I don't think it helps a marriage.I never say anything as I treasure lying down next to the little tots,they do eventually go to sleep unaided,
seems to be older parents ?

Do we really need to be unkind to each other if someone disagrees about something?