Leavers referendum

Yes that is the problem what questions are you going to ask on the Ballot paper, if its not just what Irishlady says how will they make sure it is fair and unbiased, if they add in 'or stay in' that will split the out vote, does anyone care any longer. 11 days to go, I'm beginning to wish they would just keep arguing and time will be up.

In the referendum of 2016 I voted leave. I haven't changed my mind. I'm not against a second referendum provided the choice on the ballot paper this time is Theresa May's deal or WTO deal. I would vote WTO deal.

Who is going to pay for this pointless referendum. It cost more than a couple of Bob that I do know
We voted out it’s about time remainers accepted this

We voted to leave, that has to be honoured.

Kim19 - I'm wondering what is happening to the money the DUP's have already had; ie who is passing the Northern Ireland's budgets? "The region currently holds the world record for the longest period without a sitting government, which it passed after 589 days."....."This arrangement has largely weathered a decade of politics, but in November 2016 a scandal emerged surrounding a Renewable Heat Incentive (also referred to as the RHI scandal or ‘Cash for Ash’), signed off by First Minister Arlene Foster in 2012. Its mismanagement had cost the Northern Ireland Executive £480m."......."All the while, Northern Ireland has had no functioning government, and has effectively been run by civil servants on diminishing resources. Westminster passed a budget in November 2017 for Northern Ireland for the ongoing financial year, but this was very much a temporary fix, and all involved refrained from calling it direct rule, still holding out for a deal."..."In the meantime, the British government have introduced some emergency budget legislation, but Northern Ireland is largely being run by civil servants, operating on minimal resources, with no political mandate." www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/northern-ireland-talks-latest-updates-stormont-power-sharing-deal-what-deal-look-sinn-fein-dup-deal-a8711691.html

The problem is the process. Never imagining a country could/would leave, the 'how' was not seriously planned for (I am assuming integrity - maybe it was planned for...) . A country cannot fairly leave the EU without negotiating future agreements with the EU, at the same time - which I understand is ruled out. It is not a problem for this country to solve - this is a problem of governance at the centre. So, meanwhile, our MPs - don't accept the referendum vote but won't own up to that and behave like spoilt and overtired toddlers, wasting time and money, harming the UK in many ways. ... But will Germany elect Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, and will the Christian Democrats work for a more decentralised EU which we thought the Cameron Person was going for? No wonder we are all a bit bleugh with it...

I assumed that everyone knew hoe the EU was governed but reading through comments on the GN Brexit threads it is apparent that for many this is obviously not the case. So I dug out this 2yo video which explains it perfectly:

Plhttps://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1002591845812244481

Please note that, unlike the UK Parliament, there is no unelected 2nd chamber. Every duly elected MSP has an equal vote and each country has 1 seat on the 'top table' i.e. the Council of Ministers.

I've read in the papers and seen on TV the suggestion that various financial incentives are being offered behind closed doors in exchange for supporting Mrs May's deal. All I can think of is whose money is being used for this and where it could be much better spent.

Sophie6 that is a very interesting read

Even Andy's fed up with it. Nowhere to be seen. Although spotted earlier on the 'pickle' thread

We had 2 referendums/referenda in the 70s when we went in.

Oh Muffin, how I agree with you. It's incredibly sad to see the nation and families so divided over one single act to solve infighting in the Tory party. Cameron was naïve/arrogant (take your pick) to set up the Referendum in a very hairbrained manner and then walk away. Did he not have advisers who told him that wasn't the way to conduct a public consultation of such magnitude? Did no one tell him that his methodology was unscientific and too deeply flawed for it to be valid? That you had to set the parameters beforehand of what constituted a valid result? i.e. 60%/40%.

How can the nation be reconnected when the trust has gone? Like any relationship, when the trust is gone, it's over. Or is it?

I get that the young feel let down by the older generation, but as you can see from reading these threads, for a multitude of reasons the older generation represented on GN have been engaged in the process. It seems the younger voters were less so. OK some many had exams at that time, but their future choices are going to be greatly reduced by the UK leaving the EU and I speak as someone involved in that education process and it's sad. The young are our future, everyone's future and they would gain so much from opportunities like the Erasmus exchange programme which will be closed to them and to British teachers and pupils.

But I think the healing has to begin with people starting to listen. That can only happen when fairness is seen to be done. The whole thing has been viewed in very simplistic terms, you know, Leave means leave, etc. For such huge issue it should never have been an in/out decision.

As in all disputes, there has to come a point when we look for where we can give a little. Soften our rigid views and acknowledge that the other side are not all wrong. Trust takes a long time to build up yet can be shattered in a moment. Some of the current divisions run very deep but in time, we have to make the effort for the sake of the very young and mindful of what they will inherit.

Thank you for asking these questions, your post has made me try to think outside the box.

Some of you you might be interested in this article written in 2008 after the Irish people rejected the Lisbon Treaty. Indicative of EU officials’ contempt? Does that first paragraph sound familiar? The terms used about those who voted ‘the wrong way’ are very similar to those being used today.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/dec/13/eu-ireland-lisbon-treaty

I was, all along, of the belief, and not surprised, that remain MP's would outnumber the leave and would do what ever it took in making it as B*** a rocky road as possible.

It’s so simple.....you asked the nation a question ....they said leave! What bit of this democratic process don’t tge remainders understand ! ? ...I’m sure we all could explain it in words of one syllable.

I’m with you SillyNanny321. Sick, sick, sick of it. A referendum is a referendum.

Yet May is allowed a third vote to try to get her deal through or even a fourth. A second referendum would possibly (though I admit not necessarily) bring a result which wasn't as close as the original, people would feel they are making a more informed choice and, if it is still leave, I think remainers would be more likely to accept it. In most other referendum the vote is required to be much more decisive to move from the status quo. I don't know why people are so afraid of a second vote, and the nonsense about it would go to a best of three, four five is just that, nonsense

I do wonder how many people 'will be sick and bored' with it- when they see and experience- the consequences. Especially on their children and grandchildren - and re the NHS. Bored will be the very least of their worries.

I really wouldn’t feel well enough informed to make a decision on the deal. It is very complicated and no one has really made it clearer for us “ignorant “people, meaning the electorate, to understand.☹️

Silly Nanny - you may be bored with it but it is the most important subject to discuss especially if we are to have a second referendum!

I want to know the question first
All the suggestions I have heard from Remainers would split the Leave vote.

Agree SillyNanny321.....

There should never have been a 'deal' to leave in the first place. There were 2 options in the referendum, Leave or Stay, no 3rd option of renegotiating our relationship with the EU. A leave vote was the majority, although slight, vote.

The time they have spent sorting out a deal should have been spent sorting out the position of immigrants and emigrants, e.g. should they be allowed to stay, if so under what conditions regarding pensions, health care, reciprocal tax arrangements etc. Also negotiations should have taken place on a trade deal with the EU (and the rest of the world) to be put into place AFTER the leaving date not as a condition of leaving . Any further referendum would be a betrayal of our democratic system and make us the laughing stock of the world. That said I believe that a second referendum would only confirm the first, personally I just wish it was all over.

No, but you do vote on TM's exit plan as many times as you can squeeze in now...

It will get like best of three. You don't have a second general election or any election to confirm the first do you.