You’re not poor, you’re broke!

I agree with many posters about the necessity of online access in order to complete many everyday tasks, but for those who find it an expense too far our local library offers free computer access 6 days a week.

Bluebelle I couldn’t agree more!

but for those who find it an expense too far our local library offers free computer access 6 days a week.

If I waited till a daily library trip to check for overtime it would already be taken. My over time is a big % of our family income.

It would cost me money to not have a smart phone not save it. It would cost me thousands a year.

I agree with you, Anja; we have so much now in terms of luxuries undreamed of by our parents - mine certainly! If people have choices about spending their income then I can't see how they can plead poverty. The people you speak of could choose to save instead of having the meals out, second car etc; if they then accumulated a few thousand in the bank they wouldn't be able to say they were hard up. I have also known people who blithely say they have ISAs, Premium Bonds and savings accounts but will try to tell others that they are 'too poor' to have certain things. It's sometimes difficult to compare as a black and white TV in my childhood was a really special thing to have; now it smacks of poverty - and yes, I know some people still choose to have one! The internet is becoming a necessity given the way the financial world is going, but there is free internet access to be had, as several posters have pointed out here.

I've had this discussion with DH many times. Many of our generation had parents who grew up in wartime. And they did without many things. My father, like others of his generation, threw away nothing because it could be mended. And that rubbed off on us. Whereas today's younger generation have become a throw away society. The difference is that years ago everyone you knew was in the same boat and had similar standards of living. Nowadays, though, there is a big gap between the haves and have nots. Standards of living are so much higher that people's definition of living in poverty has changed. The days of feeling lucky if you have enough to eat and a best dress for special occasions have passed. Everyone should be able to live a comfortable existence, but I do think we all resent working hard for everything we have when we then see some (rare) publicised cases where people seem to have worked the system and are living high.

I'm always amazed at the tv documentaries about poverty. The folks houses all look as though they have just been freshly decorated with new kitchens and there is always the biggest television available taking up most of one wall. They all seem to have animals to feed and all the latest gadgets. Surely priorities must come into it. Do they consider poverty to be not being able to get new things yearly? Certainly not my definition.

MaryEliza 54
I totally agree with you, people should expect a bit more than the basics. Of course some will always be ott on what they see as essential and perhaps we didn't have or need It all but it's changed days.
No one in this country should struggle to eat or heat but they do.

Times change and a smartphone and being online probably are requirements both for job-seeking and holding down a job these days, so I think both must be classed as basic necessities.

IMO it is a sad feature of our modern lives that there are people with no roof over their heads and others struggling to feed an clothe a family decently, and no country seems able to help the jobless or homeless properly.

My father, like others of his generation, threw away nothing because it could be mended. And that rubbed off on us. Whereas today's younger generation have become a throw away society

You need the luxury of space to make do and mend.

Whilst some things are easier these days one of the things that is harder is that people are being crammed into increasingly tiner homes.

A house with a shed was NOT a fancy thing in my dads or grandads day! Even a garage wasnt remarkable!

Nowadays! Wow! You would need to be on big bucks to rent or buy a house with both round here...

.... so where exactly are this generation going to keep all these spare bits and bobs, and where will they work on them?

Also. Rentals are less secure than even, you wont want to build up a stock of spare parts and bits n bobs if you only have a 6 month contract!

"tinier"

Good post Monica I agree completely.

A few on the thread have not read the OP at all by the looks of it.

I think I am quite good at make do & mend but I do at least acknowledge that DH and I were able to aquire more space than our younger colleagues in the same field can hope for, and that being able to build up a supply of tools/sewing maching/scraps and buttons/parts etc is a LUXURY we have because we are home owners.

We are not made of "better stuff" than a young familiy crammed into less space ever aware that they are only guarenteed the rest of their 6 months and once it goes on to rolling they could be served notice at any time!

I also love old solid furniture and I will always patch up rather than replace, but if I was renting in todays market I would probably chose cheap new flat pack that is easily packed up and moved on, or replaced if it didnt fit into wherever I ended up next.

I used to think that being online was a luxury but of course I realise that everything is done on line. When my son was looking for another job because he had been made redundant ... he came for Sunday lunch one week and I asked how the job search was going. He said it was difficult as he wasn’t online ( this was 5 years ago) and he couldn’t get past the first online interviews. I realised this was the way things were going and immediately brought him a laptop and paid for three months online services. He was employed within the week.my daughters kids appointments come through or are changed on line .... her timetables are online....the kids timetables are online... homework online.... notifications off school events online.... school lunch payments online. It’s the same as having a telephone 30 years ago. I admit that 0 inch tv isn’t necessary and designer clothes and 5he latest I phones. But believe me if your out 5here in the real world ‘ online’ is necessary.

60 inch tv

Notanan2. I stick by my thoughts re a throw away society. It's actually been on the news recently with regard to green issues. Im not suggesting we should be doing huge repair jobs on big items. When I was in my teens it was a real treat to have a new outfit. Now lots of youngers buy clothes, wear them a couple of times, then buy something new. I, myself, if my kettle or toaster breaks, unless it's something pretty simple, I'd just buy a new one. My dad, like others of his generation, would have bought a part and fixed it in the kitchen. You don't need to stock up on spare parts. Most towns have somewhere you can buy small appliance parts. And it's possible to get very quick delivery via the internet.

Add to all of the above: built in obselescence wasnt an issue in my father's or grandfather's day.

Interestingly many YOUNG people are campaigning to make built in obselescence illegal at the moment so there is clearly a desire there to be able to repair, rather than replace.

Older models were made in such a way that you could repair them. Newer models are not. Blame the corporations not the yoof of today.

Ours is not a rich country, we owe mega millions but still give away to other countries such as India who have told us they don't now need our help.
Lots of elderly and families can't even afford the basic essentials like food and heat, and with the cuts in benefits for the sick and disabled, I am horrified we behave in such a way. Ex servicemen on the streets and Immigrants living really well getting more than pensioners who have worked all their lives here.
It's not right or fair.

There is a "repair cafe" in my town. Mix of ages run it. Not disproportionately older people.

@ Holly, nope: www.politics.co.uk/news/2013/11/05/study-immigrants-are-net-contributors-to-the-economy

I remember when really bad times hit when I was a child my dad patched up his rusty old banger and kept it going for years. He had a huge garage to do it in (granted the property was in a lot of negative equity) and weekends off in which to tinker.

Today: not comparable.

Electric computerised cars arent so easily fixed after a certain amount of years, unlike older mechanical cars that could go forever if cared for.

His job TODAY would not include weekends off

My parents professions TODAY would not have bought them a house with a big yard/garage in that area in the first place. Maybe a "mews" house with a postage stamp garden at a stretch.

He was great at amateur mechanics/carpentry/etc. But he was able to make do and mend because times were different. Not because he was any more willing than men are today

Notanan2. I absolutely agree with you regarding obselescence. Nothing is built to last and is often cheaper to replace than repair. Don't know why you felt the need to put the word young in block capitals. I'm the first to admit many young people are concerned with the state of the planet and are doing something about it. I was merely trying to point out the difference between generations, which I think is undeniable. And, as always, it's a generalisation and doesn't apply to every person. I never remember my mother throwing food away and I'm absolutely sure my grandparents would have been appalled at the idea, but most of us (not all) do it occasionally.

And because his friends also had weekends off they could go and help each other.

I agree with you there Anja. I know people who have the latest iphones with £50 month 'bundles,' broadband at prices to make your eyes water, Sky tv at stupid prices, gym memberships that most people don't use etc. etc.etc. Going without these does NOT make you poor. It seems these days that some people just cannot get their priorities right. They think it's a god given right to be able to have all these things and sometimes without paying for them. Rant over.