Presumed Consent

The team that are caring for you in an emergency and/or end of life time are not the same team that are responsible for organ donation.

There are strict guidelines regarding donation and many people do not meet the criteria. Do we actually 'own' our bodies even in life? Can a body be owned?

The most important considerations are not to jump to irrational conclusions - to find out accurate information so that you can make informed choices and to let your family know of your wishes.

Anyone who does not like the new system is entirely free to opt-out.

I find it a dilemma. I'm in favour of transplants but not in favour of being told it's obligatory.
Depending on how the system works, I'm inclined to opt out as a protest but to tell my family that I'm happy to donate any organs that might be useful should the situation arise.

I have no objections to it. I feel confident - within the UK NHS at least - that nobody will be allowed to die when they might be saved, because their organs could be used.

Anyone who chooses to opt out - as they will be entirely free to do - should also IMO have to agree that they will never accept such a donation from anyone else's loved one.

Though I doubt that that will be the case, since it will be seen as 'discrimination' on religious or some such grounds.

It is not "obligatory". A person can register their objection to their organs being donated.

My understanding is that if you officially "opt out", your relatives will not be abole to override your wishes - but I may be wrong.

janeainsworth I know you and others weren’t , I just wanted to share the insights I gained from spending many many hours at the Royal Free Hepatology unit, with doctors and transplant coordinators both before and after Paw’s transplant and talking to other relatives. We had a 3 month wait for Paw’s liver and were given the opportunity to talk through the endless ramifications of donor consent and transplant ethics.
It is a much more complex procedure than simply agreeing or not.

In grief Next of Kin might dither or be overwhelmed/in shock or maybe not know their relatives position on organ donation but unfortunately that means that there’s a high likelihood of nothing happening at all under the old system. Relatives could even refuse to donate even if the potential donor had signed up/carried a donor card so against the donors own wishes. Now they can check on a computer in valuable minutes and get the donors own views. It’s been well advertised so if people vehemently don’t want to be a donor then opt out. Sometimes previously people may have thought about being a donor but just never gotten around to it on our very long daily to-do lists.
Organs have a whole list of criteria to even be transplantable so the pool is tiny anyway. Frankly if I’m dead what use are they to me? I would hope that I died in such a way as to be of use one last time personally

harrigran
They only take organs if you die in hospital and they don't need to search for a donor card as, at the moment, it's opt-in and your details are on the system.
They are pretty sharpish about harvesting anything they can and usually keep you on life support so the organs are kept fresh with blood running through, even though you are in fact, dead.

This has been law in Wales for a while and I must admit I have mixed feelings. My husband always said he wouldn't give consent anyway!

Exactly two years ago my DIL'S niece died suddenly in fact she died in the ambulance. She was just thirty six years old, married with two young children. The hospital put her on a life support machine for twenty four hours. Next morning they did seven tests to confirm that she was definitely dead. The donor team came in and were so kind and compassionate. Her death saved so many lives, they used her organs, her spleen, her eyes, the bones from her arms and skin from her thighs. She believed in organ donation and had discussed it with her family.

It almost destroyed her mother thinking that her body had been stripped. Her father still hasn't come to terms with her sudden death.They were a really close knit family. She only lived around the corner from her parents. The decision had been made but it must be hard to come to terms with for the family.

Then why not just opt-out? Instead of seeing it as some kind of conspiracy.

I would be happy for any of my organs to be taken - although I am not sure if this is possible as I have had cancer. (I did contact the organ donation register to ask but no-one ever got back to me).

I trust our medical professionals to do all they can for those who are very ill or badly injured, but I do have a little voice in my head which wonders whether, if there was an opt-out system, they would consider someone who was elderly or very ill more as a possible donor than as a patient.

People can donate a portion of their liver to a recipient and both livers then grow to virtually their normal size. It's called 'living donation'.

I also feel uncomfortable with presumed consent, if you lose a child I think it might put extra stress on the bereaved parents at a truly terrible time.

What everyone needs to remember is that even though it will become an opt out system as if next April the next of kin still have the final say on the matter. So they can choose as to which organs if any can be taken

I'm with you Jane10. I have many reservations.

I certainly have not told my AC about my being on the organ donor resister and would think it totally wrong for them to object to me helping someone ekse live after my death.
For those who can't stand to think of organs, bones and skin being removed, what do you think happens in a coffin after burial or cremation?

Kim19
Let's hope you are never in the position of knowing a loved one needs an urgent donation but the donor is having second thoughts.

I absolutely understand how people needing these organs must feel. I suppose its the 'presumption' that sticks in my throat!
Interesting that the institution of 'presumed consent' hasn't actually given rise to any more numbers than the previous opt in system.
DH has carried a donor card for years. I know his wishes and would adhere to them. I think I'm just just being a thrawn Scot and not wanting to be told what to do!
Niucla97's story is horrifying. That poor family. It must be impossible for them to shake that mental picture from their minds.

Why not tell your AC that you're on the organ donor register, Gabriella? Mine have told me that they are and I have reciprocated. We are all aware of each others' intentions.

Point taken G54.

I’m happy for my organs to be taken and I’m sure if there were strong family objections to harvesting a loved ones organs those objections would be sensitively taken into account by the donor team.

Families can still refuse to allow organs to be donated, so things haven't changed much.
I have been on the donor register right from the beginning, and so have my family. I have twice been in the position of having a family member at risk of death. Luckily they both survived, but in neither case was I approached by the medical staff and asked about organ donation. At such a stressful time I never even thought about them being donors, but can't understand why the request wasn't made. I wonder if, because hospitals are so overwhelmed with admissions, they are avoiding making extra work for themselves by requesting donations. I hope this isn't the case.

Nearly 30 years ago my sister was knocked off her bike as she cycled to work. She hit her (unhelmeted) head on the kerb and died of her injuries 2 days later.

My parents were approached about donating organs and at first, my mother couldn't bear the thought that her daughter, badly bruised by the accident and further damaged by the three operations undertaken to try and save her life, would be further mutilated by surgery to remove organs.

But then we found a kidney donation card in her wallet and all the rest of us were very positive about donating organs and my mother agreed.

Her kidneys returned two young men, fit and well to their families, 15 year old girl received her kidneys. Her heart had been damaged and could not be used.

In that darkest of dark times, the knowledge that our loss had brought life the three people was immensely comforting.

There was never a moment when we thought that her organs were more important to the doctors than her life. She was kept on the life support system for two days after death was confirmed, to make sure that there could be no doubt about her death and the treatment she received before death was also the best available.

I have also experienced a close friend dying because a matching liver did not become available in time.

I am, nevertheless a little ambivalent about presumed consent, but do believe that if someone has expressed a willingness to donate organs and/or carries a donor card, it should not be possible for a relation or next of kin to refuse to let the organs be taken after death.

I might have a word with a GP that if he/she would think that any part of my body would be of use after my death then it'll be alright to use if it meant improving another life. Helping others has always been my first thought.

I would then tell my daughter of this arrangement as it would be down to her when a final decision is made.

Just make sure I'm dead first !!

you can opt out Jane10 its not compulsory .I've always carried a card saying I will donate so how hardw ould it be for you to carry one saying you dont want to ?

A friend of mine lost a little boy to cot death (he was 3 months old) and, after much agonising she agreed to some of his organs being donated (she had a sister who had received a kidney from a donor so she knew about it from the other side). Years later I asked her how she felt about it now and she said that she got a lot of comfort knowing that a small part of him still lives on - which was a way of looking at it that I'd never thought of. His heart i still beating.