new Scam using the phone

Phone calls are cheap these days, particularly if they drop out quickly when no-one answers at once. It is worth someone sitting beside a phone all day while their phone rings hundreds of numbers. They speak to the ones who answer, and keep speaking to the ones who believe they are genuine callers.

Monica yes I agree.

Nonnie, these people know nothing about the people they are ringing or how much is in their bank accounts. They are dialling randomly generated numbers and hope some come good. Most under 50s are familiar with modern technology and up to speed with all the scames, so either do not answer or see the callers off.

But a number of older people, especially very old people do not understand modern technology and if someone rings them with a worrying story about their bank account are more likely to think it is genuine and respond.

Older people are also more likely to keep all the money they have in their current account. That is the reason they are most likely to be victims of these crimes and have a lot of money in their current account.

No inside information is needed for this type of scam to work. Just lots of phone calls and a 1 in 100 success rate.

Hi everyone

That's exactly what happened to my sister Monica she had a large sum in a current account which paid more interest than her savings account and she got scammed they took a large amount .mitbhas been tracked and refunded thankfully.

*Nonnie" - I didn't give the whole story in my earlier post just gave an outline of what happened to me but I can assure you I took all precautions necessary to ensure the line was free before I returned the bank's call. I would also say that in my case, as I explained, my card had been cloned and they had already used it to withdraw two smaller amounts by doing a "test" run and were ready to go for the big one. They didn't need to telephone me for any details - they already had everything they needed but luckily my bank obviously has excellent anti-fraud procedures in place.

Nonnie I think we both agree that it is best to be very careful about messages apparently from sources we would trust. Cheers.

The other reason for these phone scams is that, with interest rates being so low, there is little point in moving spare cash out of a current account into saving or investment account paying more interest, because there isn't one.

As a result, people are building up huge balances in their current accounts. The best and safest thing to do is limit the amount of money in your current account to one month's salary/pension so that in most cases, if you are scammed the most you are likely to lose is £1,000 - and it could be much less. At the end of each month transfer any excess sum in the account to a savings account.

Elegran I don't see any point in us wasting any more time on this. What seems to.me to be obvious does not seem so to you so probably best that we both leave it now. Let's hope neither of us ever finds out what it is like. Regards N

I have not met or heard of anyone who scammed anyone by telling them they had £XXX in their account. They are more likely to give a general panicking hint of criminal activity to scare the hearer into moving their money to where the scammer tells them it is safe, or to con the hearer into telling them how much they should have and what their password and security questions and answers are.

Having looked up JL, I don't think their card has any direct money connections, so probably doesn't have an Issuer Identification Number, but there are lots of organisations who are not banks but still issue cards which effectively work the same as credit cards. They will be identifiable by the first six digits of the number on the card.

There are bad apples in every barrel. But the vast majority of scammers don't work in banks, they may not work at all!

Sorry, Elegran I wrote that in a hurry, I did realise what you meant. No no one has tried a bank scam on me however I have read and heard on R4 several cases where, when pushed, banks have made payments to scammed customers without accepting responsibility. Doing so certainly gives cause fir suspicion.

I don't have any store cards. How does a John Lewis card work? Do you put money onto it from your bank account and then use it to pay for purchases? Does it remove money automatically from your bank account? Or does it just record what you have spent and use that figure to give you points, while you use your credit or debit card to actually pay? ?

I was not talking about lists of scammers but of lists of people ripe to be scammed.

Has someone told you personally that you have £XXX in your bank?

Elegran I do know about scammers lists, charities have them as well. I can understand their use in many situations but it doesn't explain how they would discover that Mr B had £x in his account at bank XLY. Their chance of hitting the right person with the right account with a lot of money is about as likely as winning the lottery.

Elegran one of us isn't explaining very well. How could anyone identify my bank from my use of a card which is not from my bank?

Sorry, I still think that if someone calls me and knows I have x amount in my bank someone has told them and the most likely person is someone with access to my bank account, ergo my bank.

Sorry, that should read You can buy a single stolen credit card online for $3 not just the number, the actual card.

If anything, bank workers are LESS likely to be working scams, if only because they are actively checked out on getting the job and because they would be the first to be suspected if their own bank were seen to get a lot of fake calls. That doesn't mean that every one of them is squeaky clean, just that you are wrong in assuming that they are the most likely people to be thieving bastards.

I have never had any scam caller tell me that I have a lot of money in my account. They assume that if you have a bank account, you have more money than most of the population of the world, who only have enough to buy today's meal, if that, and none left over to put in the bank. They don't care how much you have, they will take as much or as little as they can get hold of. We hear about the large sums because they are more newsworthy.

John Lewis etc also have Issuer Identication Numbers. If they didn't, the seller's bank wouldn't know where to get the money from for what ever had been bought.

There are lists circulating of phone numbers known to be "live" (to be in use by a real person) and lists of almost anything that could have been collected and be of use to a scammer. You can buy a single tolen credit card number online for $3 - I know because I googled it. I don't know how much a list of useful phone numbers is, because I didn't look closely into that, but there are plenty of sites advertising that they sell them. Criminals buy these and work their way through the phone numbers. The lists are sold on and go through many hands before they are completely out of date. That is probably why cold callers still expect my phone to be answered by my husband, who has been dead for seven years.

Elegran I did know all that! However my credit card is not from my bank and I think many other people have ccs from places other than their bank e.g I have a John Lewis one.

The bank account sorting code identifies the bank in which an account is held.

The people that we have heard about on Gransnet are older people. Perhaps younger people are quicker to recognise a scam and tell the scammer to F off? The bank employees don't know how old you are, unless you are a familiar face at your branch.