Short lived relationships & resulting babies

Couldn't agree more. Unwanted pregnancy is not a deterrent. I remember my DM's words. No nice man will ever marry you!! But she was practically Victorian and my GPs were. Now it's the norm to have the babies first and then think about a wedding when you've saved up for it.

I agree Jane so many statistics are only really a vague idea. Those in a stable relationship who have unplanned pregnancies are unlikely to come up in the statistics too. However, whatever the reason, I believe there are lot more single parent households now.

Nonnie we have to remember of course that unplanned pregnancies don’t necessarily result in an unwanted child, or a child born to a short-lived relationship.
I think there’s no way of knowing really, how many pregnancies are unplanned, then or now. I agree with you that birth control has never been easier or more readily available.
PECS I think that applies to many things - that something becomes more common and then more acceptable. Drug taking, for example. It doesn’t mean though that the process has been thought through, and all the consequences, intentional and unintentional, have been recognised and warned against.
I agree with you that the message now needs to be about the needs of the child, not the potential parents.

I think that the more generations that grow up in single parent homes the more it becomes the norm. For many it is fine but for many it is a vey limited experience.
That is why I said it needed radical change to attitudes. I agree with JaneA about " mixed messages" . Which is why I feel the one clear message needs to be about a child's need to be loved and cared for responsibly, and all that entails, being paramount. I reckon it could be done in a couple of generations if there was a will to see it happen.

Jane I just Googled the figures and, according to the BBC 40% of pregnancies are unplanned. I don't think it was that high 50 years ago.

I think casual sex is much more common than it used to be which could be one reason. DH didn't even kiss me on our first date. I also think that having a child without a partner is no longer the deterrent it was. No one is shocked by it anymore.

I do think it is very sad when someone has an unplanned pregnancy when it has never been easier to avoid it. It probably reduces the life chances of parent and child.

You have put this well janeainsworth there are mixed messages.
My DGDs were being loving and sisterly one day and one announced that they would always live together. They would marry eachother - girls can you know!
Yes well, maybe not yet anyway.

About 20 years ago I was teaching a young woman with a small child. I admired how she was keen to better herself and look after her son and did all I could to assist her. She got a few hours a week work at the Adult Education Centre and was making progress. I met her again when her son was about 12 and to my horror she announced she was pregnant again, with no father in sight. She said her son would be a dad to the baby. What a total waste she was on the brink of being able to start a meaningful career and she had given it all up.

My views were not accepted by some of my more pc colleagues !

Good post JaneA ??

A friend's stepson is due to become a father soon, to two babies. Not twins but single babies with two different mothers! I didn't know what to say to my friend.

I don’t doubt that in the past, there were just as many accidental pregnancies as there are now.
But then the expectation was that children would grow up with a mother and a father, so children were adopted or pregnancies terminated, illegally with great risk to the woman.
Now though, we have quite rightly removed the stigma of unmarried motherhood.
But we send out confusing messages to young people too.
It’s ok to be a single mum. If your relationship isn’t working, just leave. If you feel like identifying as a different gender you were born with, that’s fine too. In fact, doing your own thing and being true to yourself is paramount.
None of these messages are compatible with the idea that a child’s best interests are served by living in a stable home with two parents, and that often involves sacrificing your own wants, needs and ideals.
I don’t know what modern sex education involves, but I do think it should include the responsibility that having a child brings, for both parents.

It is never straightforward! Which is why we need to radically overhaul the national attitudes to sex , relationships & responsibilities!! How to do it is a hard question!

PECS I agree, I think both parents should have a right to see their own child unless there is evidence that the child will come to harm. However, there are some women who use the child as a bargaining tool and some who are simply vindictive and prevent the father from seeing his children. It is all very well to say the father can go to court but that has to be a difficult thing to do especially if you don't have the money to do so. I know a father who had so much evidence against the mother that if he went to court she would be given a custodial sentence. He didn't because he didn't want his children to lose their mother.

All these split relationships must add the housing situation.

It varies from being excellent to rubbish! It is supposed to include "relationships". The DfE are updating guidelines atm but not sure they are available yet. We are so stupid in not being more open about sex & relationships from much earlier ages in UK. It does not preserve innocence to keep kids ignorant!
It causes more issues than it resolves.

I hesitate to comment on this thread as I don't know what sex education entails in schools. When I was at school it just covered the mechanics - do schools also include caring for a baby and the sacrifices that need to be made to care for a child?

I reiterate..if both parent WANT involvement and it does not damage the child then the law & society should help that to happen.

Some 20+ years ago a friend of a friend was desperate for a 2nd child, but refused to have sex with her husband, since he was doing a lot of business-related travel in Africa and she was convinced that he was regularly using prostitutes and thus seriously risking AIDS.

She was endlessly trying to arrange very brief, unprotected flings with any suitable man. I was told that she was usually frustrated, because they would mostly insist on using a condom.
Alas I never heard whether she was successful, since the woman in question lived abroad, and the friend who related all this to me died.

A friend of a dd, who'd been told that for medical or biological reasons, the chances of her ever having a baby were a million to one against.

She subsequently became pregnant after a one night stand while on a work trip abroad. Luckily she was entirely happy about her 'million to one' baby.

While I agree there are some Dads who don't want to know, I also know of quite a few young women who got pregnant and put the father's name on the birth certificate so that they can get maintenance. Most of them are on benefits by the way. (I don't have a problem with benefits when they are needed as they very often are). They then go on to have more babies with different Dads. These mums then, sadly, often use the children as bargaining tools when the Dad wants to have contact. Obviously this is just one of many scenarios but it is so sad that the children are usually the ones to suffer. I wonder what they will think when they are old enough to understand or seek out missing parents.

paddyann I know. Its easy to stand in judgement.
Poor girls. They are still the ones who have to make the impossible decisions and someone disapproves whatever they decide.

i dont think its that simple Grammaretto there may well be reasons she doesn't want the father involved.I too know a very young,16 year old bringing up baby with parents help.Her "boyfriend " of a few weeks told her if she loved him she wouldn't "make him wear condoms" then when she told him she was pregnant he threatened her .He was a real charmer .
She didn't tell her family until it was too late for a termination so baby arrived a wee bit early but fine.Ex's family are telling people she's a slut and he only slept with her because she was so easy .She's a nice girl but very naive ,she wont let him or his family anywhere near her child and who can blame her.
I think we only imagine that all young dads want contact ,many are more than happy to walk away without taking responsibility.

Grammaretto it is those situations I am thinking about. Obviously the child's best interests are paramount but to deny the opportunity for a child to know two parents needs to be challenged. I have a friend whose nephew has a child from a casual relationship but he looks after her regularly, takes her on holiday and is her 'dad' . My friend hosts them on trips to London and she is a part of that side of the family. The parents do not need to be best buddies..but can be civilised and courteous for the child's sake

Do we in the UK still have the highest number of teenage pregnancies in Europe?
I know a girl who had her baby and she is bringing him up with the help of her parents. She hasn't told the father that she was pregnant. She says she hardly knew him and doesn't want him in her life.
I am shocked. I think her attitude is selfish.

I did not want to make any judgements about parents of young people who have "unplanned" babies. It happens! I just feel it needs to be more of a mainstream expectation that both parents have an equal responsibility in ensuring a child's well being. Neither parent has the right to deny the other the opportunity to fulfil that responsibility as long as there is no risk to the child's wellbeing.

trisher - totally agree with your post.

I did mean that any young man who wants to be a support to his child should have that opportunity.

Some of you have no idea about the wiles young women employ to convince men there is no danger of them getting pregnant. Why do they do it? I've no idea. But the father has to be very strong and persistant to maintain contact with the child. The courts do take the mother's side.
Yes there are careless men who don't want to use condoms, but there are also devious women who want a baby. Can you blame the parents for this? I don't think I think you can do your best and a child can still go astray