I carry chairs

I saw the tail end of film of a a cross gender gathering with some trans and non trans people.

The agressive behaviour of some of the protaganists appeared to be very intimidating with regard to the issue.

Transgender or not, but that behaviour was unacceptable.

No my dentures hadn't fallen out, should have said toothpaste.
On a different note if I was a guest at a conference I wouldn't expect to carry a chair upstairs whatever my gender and also I am starting work in a food bank soon but first I have to undertake a H&S lesson and lifting and carrying. So what about the H&S issue in carrying chairs. The last point everyone is different and entitled to respect even those that change gender.

This is something my husband and I still laugh about. When in Thailand we went into a big supermarket and we were looking for some lubrication cream in the chemist bit of the supermarket. While we both peering at the various products a beautiful looking young Thai lady assistant came up to us and said in the deep male voice May I help you madam with what you are looking for. I was just to embarrassed to tell her so I said I was looking for tooth. .

LondonMzFitz the fact that your friend was born without a womb is a different issue. There are lots of people walking about without an ovary or kidney also.

I was making the point somewhat clumsily that you cannot have children unless you were born with female chromosomes.

Time to remove ? and ? from toilets and changing rooms and
replace with XX and XY
Plates??

This whole gender agenda is getting ridiculous!!!!

I agree GrannyGravy

I was in a public loo in Cambridge a few months ago and it was busy. I queued and got a cubicle. When I came out, much a huge man, dressed as a woman was at the sinks applying lipstick. He said the Ladies loo was now his natural home. When he'd finished he propped himself on the sink and said very loudly while eyeing up the queue of bewildered women "Come on ladies! Hurry up in there. Lots of us are waiting!"

I felt both insulted and angry that he was in our midst, behaving in a loutish manner and loudly and obviously making some statement about his gender. Why should women be made to feel uncomfortable in a domain that is reserved for women and their personal and intimate needs?

Men who feel they are women do not know how women feel, or react and the chairs incident proves it. Most able bodied women would lend a hand in most furniture shifting exercises.

Hmm! is this another article stirring up a non -story?

As many have pointed out..if someone m/f/other have been invited to meet someone for an interview it seems odd they are expected to move furniture up or down stairs!

If it was something everyone was helping with then to refuse to do it, on the grounds of gender alone, is inappropriate. Women and men can (& cannot )do all sorts of things stereotypically assigned to one gender or another. All to do with physical aptitude and mental attitude not your genitalia!

It has to be much easier for a woman to 'transition' to being a man within society (leaving aside the issue of extremely painful surgery) because there many slightly built men around (one example is Richard Hammond, formerly of Top Gear) and this is perfectly normal. I know someone who has transitioned from female to male. Testosterone supplements have given him a deeper voice, body hair, facial hair and a bald spot. I can't comment on the radical surgery he's probably had. No one who didn't know him previously as a female would ever suspect he'd been anything other than a man so he experiences little or no prejudice or abuse. Men transitioning to women, with their bone structure formed by male amounts of testosterone, inevitably have a very much harder time being accepted.

My friend "F" found out at 17 when she didn't have periods that she was born without a womb. Doesn't make her a man!

The "removing my rights" argument is a good one. People of colour wished to remove the right of white people to own slaves. Women wished to remove the right of men to make decisions without input from women. Gay people did actually want to remove the right of other people to beat them up with impunity, and that is basically the same thing trans people want now.

Yes transwomen and transmen are part of our lives now. Personally I know of 3 women who have or are transitioning into men. One has married a woman and thats is what they want a normal heterosexual relationship. Another who has transitioned completely is in a homosexual relationship. I found this odd at first but understood once it was explained that gender and sexuality are two different things. The only parts of themselves that can never be changed are your height and build. So Sandra Forgues will always have bigger hands and feet than most women no matter how much she can change her voice.

trisher, I don't remember gay people demanding rights that would result in rights being removed from anyone else.

Trans people are demanding that there are no single sex spaces of any kind.

'Lesbian' transwomen are even insisting that female lesbians should have sex with them as it is transphobic not to want to do so.

www.afterellen.com/general-news/567823-girl-dick-the-cotton-ceiling-and-the-cultural-war-on-lesbians-girls-and-women

I carry chairs if necessary, but I wouldn't expect to if I had been invited for an interview. Specially if it involved photographs and I was expected to be wearing high heels.

Of course if she had carried chairs, the reporter would have said this proves she is really a man. Perhaps that's why she didn't.

I didn't expect to find such TERFish comments as some above on Gransnet.
= "I thought you were a nice girl."
= "I won't like you if you have opinions that differ from mine."

I accept transwomen as women; they just haven't been assigned female gender at birth.

They haven't been assigned female gender because they are of the male sex. They continue to be of the male sex whether they use hormones or have surgery or not.

(Btw, 80+% of transwomen have no treatment of any kind, not even counselling.)

Defining women as people who act and think and look "girly" and submissive is regression not progression.

They can call themselves whatever,doesn’t bother me but I very much disagree about taking part in women’s sports events.
I have also read about people not wanting them in ladies toilets which I understand but now it is being said they should use disabled toilets which seems very unfair. There is usually only one around and often shared with a baby changing area and anyone else that can’t be bothered to go to the normal ones, a few times I have almost ended in tears because I have needed to go do badly I had stomach pains but been unable to get in one

I happened to see the Lorraine program this morning and the headline was "First man in UK to give birth"!!!!!

Nooooo they were a woman who halted surgery/treatment to become a "transman", it is a physical impossibility for a "man" to get pregnant and carry a baby to term!!!!!

I respect their right to live as whatever gender they choose, but as I have said numerous times it is still impossible to change the chromosomes that you are born as.

The point is, they will never be a woman because they were born male with the XY chromosomes.
They can call themselves a Transwoman if they wish, but if they still have a penis, they are still very much a man and don’t belong in women’s safe spaces such as changing rooms or take part in women’s sport etc.

Stop giving them

Many of the comments on here are very similar to those that were once made about people who came out as gay in their later life- How could they marry/have children/live a hidden life? etc. I think perhaps in 10 or 20 years time we will be wondering what all the fuss was about and will have accepted trans gender as just another part of life.

Interesting. How do you think an 80 y o woman dresses then?

How can they be women?Anyway how many of them are around? I only see one around here and he is obviously a man. I was told he is an M and S tranny because he dresses like an 80 year old woman.

Her voice, even by the standards of the female sex, is noticeably dainty and high-pitched.
“I could slip back into my old voice and you’d fall out of your chair!” She says with a high, trilling laugh.
Dainty? Trilling?

Before she would automatically have lent a hand; now she demurs bashfully as the photographer and I haul them up the staircase.
The writer of the piece, James Gheerbrant, and the photographer, Patrick Aventurier, carried the two chairs up the stairs. I presume they carried a chair each -?- where they, like, unable to in some way? Was it suggested by one of these men Sandra carry one of these chairs so either of the men could watch her? There's two blokes well able to carry blooming chairs for this interview so get on with it!

I would tell the writer to pee off, frankly!

I'm fully supportive of anyone who feels uncomfortable in their own skin, be it transgender or anything else. I don't agree to the boy/girl blue/pink doctor/nurse idea. And I know some of you who have posted in opposition to Sandra of the piece identifying as a female will say they don't subscribe to the blue/pink doctor/nurse thing, but that is because we (saying we as a worldwide thing) have moved on in our thinking. And I think - my opinion - is that understanding and being able to empathise with those who struggle with their gender will be the next thing for us (as a worldwide thing) to get our heads around.

I don't know why or even if she really "demurred" I agree the language being used is biased and intended to make you dislike the woman. I have asked for chairs to be moved for an event in a hotel. I didn't move them it was the staff's job. A bit different to carrying things about in your own home or elsewhere. And when I was teaching I shifted everything although our head teacher (female) always asked the man on the staff to do it if she wanted anything moving. Lots of people hve expectations of women and men.

What has gender to do with this please?