The Minister for Loneliness shares her thoughts.....

And lets be honest. When a lot of public figures talk about families and communities stepping up a lot of them mean women. It is WOMEN who had to stop doing as much free caring as they did in the past, and now that its not done freely it is missed.

But women now can't afford to stay home with their own babies, or to retire at a reasonable age,

Italian family values were mentioned, a friend of mine is married to an Italian man. He pressured her to give up work so that SHE could look after HIS parents. He would never in a million years consider being the one to curtail HIS career to look after them himself. He also vetoed them moving nearer her own family. Care is very much womens work in the part of Italy he comes from.

Its an individual anecdote, but not an admirable one...

In an ideal world.....
I asked my DSister about her wonderful family holidays with AC and DGC and she pointed out that she paid.
We were included this year with DS and DDiL on their holiday and we invited DD and DSIL to share ours.
We were useful as babysitters but I am grateful to them both for being with us.
We don't live near so it was very special.
It's strange being the oldies when we were so used to being the parents.

Lumarei if the residential home was properly staffed then your friend would have someone available to chat with her, play games or even take her out for visits. Of course volunteers are valuable but they should not be an essential part of someone's life.
I don't know if anyone watched the drama with Sheridan Smith and Alison Steadman,she lost her job because she was caring for her mum. Someone on a zero hours contract wouldn't lose their job, they would just be left with no income, but still be employed.So unable to claim benefits or anything.

And mine Lumarei!

My sentiments exactly Lumarei

My Italian friend was retired, by the time she started caring for her mother and sister. She managed on her state pension, as many of us do.

I'm wondering how people earn a living if they look after a succession of frail relatives..

I didn't work zero hours but, as a civil servant, if I needed time off to care for anybody I had to use my annual leave allowance. If I'd used it all up, I'd have had to take unpaid leave (which I did when my son was very young and I was a single parent). Similarly, if you reduce your hours for the purposes of long-term caring, you get paid less. Might not be so bad for couples who are both working but not everyone's in that position. Must be very difficult if you've got parents and children depending on you.

90% of the replies here focus on the holiday issue when the real message is “take care of the elderly and the lonely” with some real suggestions on how to help:

Start a conversation. Stop and talk. Don't hurry them.
Offer practical help, such as shopping, posting a letter, picking up prescriptions or walking their dog
Offer to accompany them or give them a lift to medical appointments, the library, hairdressers or faith services
Share your time - volunteer with an organisation that has befriending services matching you with an isolated elderly person for home visits or regular phone calls
Help with household tasks - offer to take out the rubbish, change light bulbs, clear snow, put up pictures
Share a meal - take round an extra plate of hot home-cooked food or a frozen portion

Why does nobody comment on this? Society as a collective system cannot cover the increasing problem of loneliness - each one of us can. I visit an old lady in a nursing home. She is lonelier there than when she lived on her own. Most residents suffer from dementia or are hard of hearing. With no relatives she relies on indivuals visiting her. The state cannot organise this.

An Italian friend of mine was widowed at an early age. She remained in England and brought up her two children alone. When her mother became frail she brought her over to England, and cared for her for many years, until she died. Some years later, although her own health wasn't too good, and her eyesight was failing, she brought over her widowed sister . Her sister had no family in Italy to care for her, and she had cancer. Gina looked after her also, until her death two years later.
This is the Italian way, and they would be astonished at the idea of not caring for family members, no matter how difficult it is. It used to be like that here, as well. I know that it still is, to some people, but many aren't willing to compromise their own lifestyles, and expect someone else to take the responsibility.

We're in the middle of a 'Grand Tour' of 3 of our families. They all live far from us so a lot of driving is involved.
The 4th is in India, so doubt if we'll see them again.
As far as we're concerned, distancmed countries referrede is the main problem. Quite different from my childhs. ood days when we all lived nearby. Probably more like the S. Med families in the OP's link.

It has become a kneejerk reaction for some to say a politician is ‘divorced from reality’......rubbish!

PECS it wouldn’t matter to some on GN what any Conservative Minister had to say ......unless they were Labour or Lib Dem in which case they would be eagerly
applauded.In any case, the Lib Dems and Labour are not in power, so could ( and do) regularly promise the garden of eden.
Some of what Mim suggests could be helpful.

M0nica Oh How True!! Well said - every bit!

It is yet another cloud cuckoo plan from a Ministry totally divorced from reality.

You have clarified the point!

Of course it is not about how we organised our holidays or would like to plan them , with or without our offspring inviting us!! Thank you for opening my eyes to this! I knew I was very frustrated by the whole premise and the way it is presented, but could only cover it by asking to be respected. You have analysed the situation with perspicacity and precision. As always. Thank you!

Even in Asian countries which are often cited as having multidiciplinary living, this is increasingly not the case in modern life, with urbanisation and smaller living spaces, property not being passed down & both men and women going out to work. The same issues are happening everywhere with increased use of day care for children and nursing homes for the elderly.

It is not a cultural thing. It is a logistical thing.

Young couples leave home towns to work & raise families in increasingly small homes.
Large family homes need to be sold off and redeveloped into smaller units.

It happens in all modernising cultures.

I do wonder which Europeans she was thinking of! Here in Denmark, grandparents are definitely not taken on holiday by their children. If three generations do go away together, which is quite rare, you can confidently expect the grandparents to be footing the bill.

I'm sure whole families going away together happens somewhere or other in Europe, but I haven't noticed this while travelling, have you?

Surely it is not a question of whether we holiday with DC/ did holiday with own parents/ want to holiday with DC but are never asked. I have quite deliberately said nothing about how holidays work in our family or closeness or otherwise for appointment purposes, assuming we even need help

For me the key point is that this minister has scooped up all older people from 50 - 110, labelled us allas vulnerable and lonely and then suggested some simplistic solutions that will be quite impossible or impractical for the majority of families.

She then calls up some faux -European comparison. She clearly hasn't visited Europe during the holiday season for the last 50 years. France, Germany are among many European countries suffering the same problems as us. The idea that all European families live in multi-generational households, where everyone rallies round to look after the old and infirm is bunkum.

It is yet another cloud cuckoo plan from a Ministry totally divorced from reality.

I definitely wouldn’t want to go on holiday with my Dd and Dgs. Just a few hours in their company, and I need a lie down.

To me,holidays are about relaxing. I find the whole idea, stressful.

TheMaggie wrote;

"It’s up to each of us as we get older to organise our lives as best we can and be grateful for whatever help our busy adult children choose to give us."

This advice applies to me especially should remember it when I feel sorry for myself .

I would prefer not to go on holiday together but perhaps stay somewhere near and meet up a few times so I could see the children and chat with the adults. But never stay with them the whole time. They need the break the time away affords and I wouldn't dream of impinging on their family time. Just to pop by for a meal or spend an afternoon together on the beach would be lovely.

Thank you PECS I will suggest that to them.

Start by showing a bit of respect.

Sorry to hear that narrowboatnan
Could you suggest a short break together? If you do a long weekend you would all find out if it 'worked ' or not for you all!

I’d love to go on holiday with my grown up children and my adorable GC but it never occurs to them to invite me ?