is it " virtue signalling" or just a good thing?

At my gcs state primary there is a ‘ voluntary’ ( but oh so obligatory ) payment of £25 per child for teachers’ Christmas gifts. That’s £50 for her two small children. When they tried to ‘ get away’ with £15 they were chased up to pay the balance.
You should name this school because a state school would not be be allowed to do this.
Is this money demanded by the school or by a parents'organisation?
You simply refuse to pay it; it has nothing to do with education.

What I do not have is any respect for anyone who thinks it’s right and proper to expect money or gifts from those who have almost nothing to give but feel guilt tripped into doing so
Who expects money or gifts?
Facts please.
Who guilt trips you in to doing this?
Facts please.

janeainsworth
£23-26.5k.
Twice what you need to earn when openinga bank account. Teachers also work shorter hours and enjoy longer holidays than those in most other sectors. If they are any good they can progress and supply teachers remuneration is about £100-220pd depending on area and skills but can be a lot more depending on the school.
My father was headmaster of a large mixed school and, when he died suddenly in 1962, his salary was £1k pa...yes. As a family of 5 we had everything we needed and 80% of what we wanted. Nothing second hand. We lived in a semi-det, 3 bed, two reception house with walled gardens front and back in a tree-lined suburban road.
If people cannot live on £22k then they're lousy at budgeting.

22K may be ok for a single person living in London but not if you have dependents

Teachers work really hard. They deserve a reasonable wage.Especially nowadays. They have enormous pressures to reach targets etc.

You’ve lost me, Gabriella.
I don’t see what headmasters’ salaries in 1962 have got to do with classroom teachers’ salaries in 2018.

Gabriella I currently get paid £120 a day for supply teaching before tax etc. In Surrey. That works out at about £17 per hour. I pay the jobbing gardener who has been helping me recently a higher hourly rate.

I have 40 very successful years behind me and a Masters..so pay not necessarily related to experience or qualification!. It's not great for a professional salary but a lot better than the 'unskilled' minimum wage hourly rate my friend is paid as a carer.
I choose to supply to keep my classroom skills up to speed to give my more lucrative consultancy work credibility.
Teachers do get to work fewer hours when schools are closed that is true but they work similar hours to any other professional during term time :7: 30 -6:00 plus work at home is the daily norm for my DD2. My DD1 is self employed and works fewer hours a day but earns more and has greater flexibility re time.

I have friends in the legal and medical professions who also had far more flexibility than I ever did in their working lives. Swings and roundabouts!

PECS the other thing is that if you do not have a full-time contract then you do not get paid for holidays or sick leave.
Although my DD prefers the flexibility this allows her, it worries me!

Sorry, I am confused , are these schools which more or less demand present money state schools?

Also , the whole idea of giving and gift giving and Christmas has gone mad in my opinion.

I think the one in question is a C of E state school oldbaty

If the DGD's school suggested this, I think they would get short shrift from the very sensible parents.

sorry - oldbatty

How absolutely crazy.

Jalima that is correct. It states clearly on the pay slip that £120 includes % ge for holiday pay. That is OK for me as a semi retired person but not for a person starting out!

Gabriella I think you may have forgotten that in 1962 the average house price for a semi was about £2,500 so two and half your father's salary. Two and a half of £25k ( new teacher) which is £1800 pm before tax, NI & pension and loan repayment etc(or even for a HT earning the nat. average of £50k,) will buy you what? Certainly not much as the average semi price is now about £225,600. In the SE it is much higher as you will know.

The 2 bed terrace in my cul de sac, pocket handkerchief for a garden is on the market for £350k or to rent

If you can save the 10% for a deposit and still pay a rent (£1350 pm for a 2 bed place locally!), pay bills, eat, have clothes and pay transport costs to get to earn the money in the first place out of your £1800 a month well done you!

It is like comparing apples and potatoes... not the same at all.

Pecs with her Masters degree and forty years of teaching experience, is paid £120 per day as a supply teacher. Teachers work 195 days per year so this equates to a full-time salary of £23,400 pa.

The government classifies (for immigration purposes) anyone who earns less than £30,000 pa as "low skilled", therefore not entitled to enter this country! Good thing Pecs is already here!

Gosh Varian had not thought of it like that!

Teachers also work shorter hours and enjoy longer holidays than those in most other sectors.
No they don't.
Teachers' working days don't start and end when their lessons do.
Most teachers either work 6 or 7 days a week or they elongate their weekdays to get their work done. Its not like in your fathers day, there is a lot more paperwork to do behind the scenes now.
They get no flexibility re when to take their leave unlike other sectors and unlike other sectors teachers are often expected to work from home during their leave.
There is compulsory overtime for meetings etc for contracted teachers

If people cannot live on £22k then they're lousy at budgeting.
Teachers who are parents have to pay for wrap-around care for their children 5 days a week.
£22,000 is around £1500 take home a month (most new teachers have student loans these days). A terrace in a not great area round here (not london) with no parking is about £1200/month to rent.
The ends don't meet unless there's another income coming in. Think it's your budgeting arithmetic skills that need work if you think that's a comfortable living wage these days.

At that salary you are just over the threshold for tax credits so you are not actually much better off than people on lower salaries who qualify for extra.

Gabriella I think you should talk to a teacher about shorter hours/longer holidays in order to see the true picture of education in 2018. When I was teaching full time I worked a 14 hour day most days, marking and preparing late into the evening. I also worked weekends and went into school a number of days in every holiday. It was exhausting. Also out of my salary I would purchase books and teaching materials not provided by the school, baking ingredients, compost for ‘growing things’ topics and the list goes on. Not to mention food for children who had no breakfast ... Please try not to comment so negatively when your knowledge isn’t up to date.

Gabriella, I wonder how you'll respond to the messages above from PECS, varian, notanan and Sarahmob? Their comments put accurately the hours and earnings of teachers.

Jane you were very lucky to have such a lovely house etc. My dad went into teaching in London after being in the army in the war. I was a baby and we had trouble getting rented accommodation. Some weeks they could not afford even a stamp for a letter and my mum was the best money manager I knew. When they moved to Yorkshire they had to borrow the deposit to buy a tiny bungalow for £650. Things did get better when he was made deputy head but they were always careful.
I went into teaching in 1967 for a pittance and worked every evening marking etc. I used to appreciate the hand made thank you cards I was given and wanted nothing more. None of the teachers I know expect or want presents.

Gabriella Teachers work even harder now having long days and often working in the evening s and over their break times. They also plan lessons in their long holidays. They are also working with limited resources since the government cuts.
Their salaries do not reflect this especially in expensive areas.

I think that's the same for most jobs these days.

For what its worth I am on a comparable salary to teachers but:

My over time is both PAID and optional.

My time off is my time, I am not expected to continue my work from home once my working day ends. Or on my days off. Or during my annual leave.

I can request to take my annual leave at any time. I won't necessarily always be granted it at the times I want it, but often I am.

I think my sector has it a lot easier than teaching.

And I'm very good at budgeting thank you very much. But we don't get by on my income alone. It's an okay income if it's per person in a 2 income home. Not for a single parent though.

I really don't know where this recurring begrudgingly of teachers salaries comes from? It doesn't seem to happen to other graduate professions??

As a family of 5 we had everything we needed and 80% of what we wanted. Nothing second hand. We lived in a semi-det, 3 bed, two reception house with walled gardens front and back in a tree-lined suburban road

GG
Was this the council house in run down Liverpool I believe you described once before? .

"begrudgery"

dragonfly46
Jane you were very lucky to have such a lovely house etc

What are you talking about?
I do hope you’re not mixing me up with gabriella.