Wearing a white poppy

This thread certainly arouses passions and they're anything but peaceful. If only we could channel the passion into a positive drive for a better world.
Peace treaties can only work if the past wrongs are acknowledged and the society can move on.
Should we ask ourselves what can we do?

I have often observed that those calling themselves pacifists are usually the most quick tempered people in RL

Also I don’t really understand anyone bothering to tell us all how dreadful war is and how many children die. We all know this. In an ideal world of course there should be no wars or hate or killing. But unfortunately if we had all sat back and been ‘pacifists’ Hitler would have taken over Europe. Millions more Jews, disabled people and children would have died and maybe still would be now.

Sometimes war is inevitable to stop evil.

I wear a red poppy to remember those who died in the war! All wars! Civilians included. I have no idea why anyone feels the need to wear a white one unless it’s for attention.

Very strange comment upthread about ‘collateral damage’

i think Tony Blaire was the worst thing that happened to this counrty

Guessing you prefer permanent opposition with Corbyn then while the Tories run amok.

Tony Blair was more Tory than Labour, I think the majority of our current elected politicians of both side of the H of P are not worthy of the cross on the ballot paper.

The far left think of Tony Blair as more Tory than labour, the centre left think of Corbyn as a communist .Neil Kinnock, John Smith, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair moved the party away from the disastrous far left 1983 election and won three consecutive elections.

So true Annie, I feel sad that we never got to see John Smith as our Prime Minister, he gave the impression of being a very honourable man.

I have a dear friend and colleague, about my age, who has always been upbeat and with a dry sense of humour. He astonished us all when, because of his long career in the army (as a very high ranking bandsman) he was asked if he would like to lay our branch's wreath on Armistice Day and completely 'lost it'. He blurted out a string of invective against the British Legion, who had apparently refused him any help, because his PTSD had arisen within the UK (Irish Border) rather than in Afghanistan, etc. and such actions were to be hushed up and not acknowledged. He had recently watched a documentary about 'the troubles' which condemned the activities of the British State in NI and had labelled himself and his comrades as 'Murderers'. He was fairly incoherent but it seems that bandsmen were, as is the norm, forced to take part in armed border patrols and innocent British civilians had been killed.

I cannot get this proud man's distress out of my mind. This is not an event from 100 years ago, this is the reality today. I have read this thread with some disbelief. Statement's such as no foreign troops here since 1066? tell that to the Irish, Scots, Welsh and to the Londener's who endured the Blitz and residents of Clydebank, Southampton, Coventry, etc.

BTW - WW1 was not 'political' it was caused by imperialist actions by assorted European Monarchs (who were mostly cousins) playing war games, using the common folk as pawns. Nothing glorious about it at all.

Granny23 I am so sorry for your friend but it is yet another example of how governments (and now it seems the British Legion) use and then dump the ordinary soldier when they choose. It has happened in every conflict everywhere. The present promotion of militarism is an attempt of course to prevent people realising this and convince them that there is honour and glory in war.
Mycatisahacker "Collateral damage" is the term used by the military to describe civilian casualties in any conflict. The increasingly rising numbers of civilians dying and injured through military actions necessitated calling them something that made this more acceptable to the soldiers involved.

Every year what should be a thread that maintains an air of decency because of what the subject matter is about descends into personal abuse or disrespect.

I posted this 4 years ago when the 'poppy at the tower' display was causing some annoyance to some posters then and I stand by what I said at that time.:_

POGS Thu 06-Nov-14 13:54:17

" At the end of the day irrespective of which way your opinion falls the fact remains it is 'possibly' because of the sacrifices made by those who fought which allows us the opportunity to free speech to air them.

If I choose to remember that fact by wearing a poppy, because I want to, then it is not up to anybody or organisation to tell me I am wrong. I don't care if somebody doesn't wish to wear a poppy, that's their choice, I wouldn't dream of telling somebody you should wear a poppy.

I find the whole debate about the poppy in general and particularly the Tower display nothing more than sordid.

If a display were in situ, where, as suggested, it was a memorial constructed of mud and barbed wire I would be mature enough to accept that has a value too because no offence could be taken if the 'true' meaning behind it was to remind us of what hell war can be and to keep in our minds how people suffered because of it. I would not however say that it was wrong and make cheap shot remarks.

I agree we don't need a history lesson on the subject. We don't know how we would have behaved given the fact we were at war with a country/countries that were a threat to our lives and children and on our doorstep, not in some far off land. It's all fine and dandy to espouse a view having the privilege of historical hindsight but that's all it can ever be, a view.

How sad there is such hostility over a subject that doesn't have a scrap of vengeance about it."

GrannyGravy13, John Smith would have made a fine PM I agree. We as a family were really saddened by his death and to be honest didn't feel the same about future leaders or even politics after that.

Well said POGS ??

I think it is about maintaining respect for others, however they choose to recognise the sacrifice of thousands. We all care - just in our different ways.

I think some people have migrated to the white poppy because of some of the bedfellows that the British Legion has, which certainly to me seem inappropriate. It is shame that they have allowed their laudable message and campaign to be tainted in this way.

WW1 is a hard one really to get my head around - at least in WW2 it was clear what they were fighting for/against.

And the 'flu epidemic after WW1 killed more people than thew war. A truly grim time for all.

I have just taken GS for his "'flu tickle" up the nose - how lucky we all are to have this.

I belong to a WW2 forum and discussion on this topic has been banned as too controversial.
Personally, I find the discussion of war as a big adventure appalling. But younger people who didn't experience it have a different outlook.
I haven't read the whole thread btw.

ps when I read about the white poppy my first thought was that it was to commemorate the poor WW1 soldiers who couldn't take it any more and ran away and were then executed .
Having read the thread now, it seems that the original purpose has been lost.

Luckygirl, a brief summary:
June 28, 1914 - Gavrilo Princip assassinates Franz Ferdinand.
July 28, 1914 - Austria-Hungary declares war on Serbia.
August 2, 1914 - Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and Germany sign a secret treaty of alliance.
August 3, 1914 - Germany declares war on France.
August 4, 1914 - Germany invades Belgium, leading Britain to declare war on Germany.
August 10, 1914 - Austria-Hungary invades Russia.

There were all kinds of alliances and complicated issues which led to war being declared, but I think the main issue was that Germany invaded Belgium, a neutral country, and France and treated the civilians of those countries atrociously.

Fennel the white poppy certainly commemorates those men and all the conscientious objectors who were often treated in terrible ways
archive.ppu.org.uk/coproject/coprojectindex.html

ps when I read about the white poppy my first thought was that it was to commemorate the poor WW1 soldiers who couldn't take it any more and ran away and were then executed
Perhaps it was Fennel - certainly those who objected to war were given white feathers, weren't they? Shocking to think of now of course. In fact, I'm just reading a book (fiction but based on a true family history) where a young Australian man has decided he will not join up and go off to fight in WW1 - so his fiancée is angry, shamed and I think marries someone else instead. She wanted to go over to nurse, but her father forbade her to go although she was 20.
Those were the attitudes 100 years ago.

I do believe there is a place for the white poppy. The concept of a peace poppy includes all military and civilians impacted by war.. None of us, I hope, want war All lives lost to war should be mourned and remembered often for very different reasons maybe, but remembered nevertheless. The Peace pledge union still work to teach resolution and reconciliation.. all equally valuable work. Prevention is as important as tending to the needs of those who have suffered.
The BL do a lot of work with ex servicemen and it is totally appropriate that they have a high profile fundraising and remembrance campaign via the iconic red poppy.

This year I do feel the red poppy campaign has been more restrained and there has been less of a race to be the first to wear a poppy. Like my views of celebrating (decorating for) Christmas for 5 weeks I also dislike the extension of Poppy time starting mid October! Not anti -poppy but like it to feel special and noticeable rather than becoming 'wallpaper' if they are around too long. Used to be only a couple of days before and after 11th /Remembrance Sunday.

Similar to the young men in France, who were forced to be drafted into Germany in 1943 to work in their munitions industry.
They, and their families, were treated as traitors until a national 'recognition' in ?2009.
This was one of the main foundations of the french resistance movement - those who refused to be drafted.

I also dislike the extension of Poppy time starting mid October!
No-one should be wearing one then anyway because they are not allowed to sell any before the launch of the Poppy Appeal which was on 25th October - perhaps they are wearing last year's which rather defeats the object.
In fact, it does seem to have been extended for a bit longer this year, perhaps because it is 100 years since the signing of the Armistice.

I usually manage to lose at least one or forget to move it to a different coat.

The BL do a lot of work with ex servicemen
and their families, including bereaved families.

I end up with pockets full of poppies but never find one when I am leaving the house!

lemon your theory about if I would be here or not is flawed. My mother was alive and had children during WW2 I was born at the end of the war, therefore even if my grandfather had been killed by the Nazis my mother would still have been alive,and as we are a nice blonde Aryan looking family would have been expected to have more children.
As for the idea that a regime wipes out all other political thought, if that were the case there would be no Nazi organisations in ex-communist countries and no communist organisations in ones ruled by Fascists. It doesn't work like that.

I was born at the end of the war, therefore even if my Grandfather had been killed by the Nazis my Mother would still have been alive, and as we are a nice blonde Aryan looking family would have been expected to have more children
trisher, I really cannot believe that you have posted the above sentence. Truly shocking! I feel that your white poppy argument has now gone too far. I am disgusted!

no communist organisations in ones ruled by Fascists. It doesn't work like that

I think it worked like that in Hitler's Germany trisher

I thought that the Communist Party was banned in Germany in 1933 and had to go underground.