Wearing a white poppy

a militaristic ceremony that actually many ex-service men from both world wars would neither choose to recognise or attend.
I disagree that it is militaristic just because they are orderly.

If you want to see militaristic just look at N Korean marches, Russian Victory Day parades etc.

There you go again trisher, you have noticed changes no one else has

Annie why is there this perception that pacifists are somehow people who are not passionate or outspoken some of the most famous writers and politicians were outspoken pacifists. Including Keir Hardie, G.B Shaw and Vera Britten.
Check them out here
www.biographyonline.net/people/famous/pacifists.html
The remembrance services I see now are very different from those of my youth, when no one wore a uniform, you saw the occasional poppy but the atmosphere was one of sorrow and mourning, not of a military parade. And you see the change has been done so subtly that you have failed to notice it. It's much the same philosophy as using the term "collateral damage" for civilian casualties, cutting the offensive verses from a song or accepting funding from a weapons manufacturer.

a militaristic ceremony that actually many ex-service men from both world wars would neither choose to recognise or attend.

You can't know that for sure, trisher because most of them are dead now or too frail to attend. You don't know how many are watching the television.

I respect your views and opinions though even if I disagree with some (not all) of them.

The joke about a blonde family being OK did not upset me because a sense of humour, often sardonic, helped many servicemen cope with the horrors. My father would definitely have appreciated the irony.

Pearl clutching is a modern day luxury.

trisher. You do come across as an aggressive pacifist , no use talking of peace and verbally going to war surely ? I see no effort to convince that war is justified.

Do people really not understand Remembrance Day for me now is a militaristic ceremony that actually many ex-service men from both world wars would neither choose to recognise or attend. It was attended in the past as a dedication that we recognised that war was wrong and pledged that it would never happen again. It has since been hi-jacked by the professional military, government and arms dealers, in the hope that they will convince future generations that war is justified. It isn't coincidental. that there is now a huge investment in army cadet corps and none in youth services.
It also seems very strange to me that it is OK for someone to tell me that my grandfather would have been killed by the Nazis because he was a communist but offensive for me to reply my mother and the rest of our family would be OK because we are blonde. It is of course typical of the double standards applied to anyone who is left wing or a pacifist.

Grannyactivist

A sad but timely reminder that Remembrance Day is no longer solely about WW 1 or WW 11 because as the years move forward so does Remembrance Day move forward to encompass subsequent theatres of war and all those who lost their lives serving their country.

A time of rumination.

grannyactivist, thanks for your post, which we know comes from lived experience and your heart.

My working life meant I had a lot of contact with exservice personnel. It didn't matter what active service they had seen, the British Legion supported them, so I was surprised to read above that someone who served in NI was refused help.

Wearing a ceramic or knitted poppy never stopped anyone continuing to put cash into the BL collecting cans. I'm also wearing a purple one this year, to commemorate the animals who were killed, especially those in WW1.

Lemongrove but they are working hard here: Robinson, Farage et al plus JRM etc presenting the "acceptable" face! Their views need constant challenge

My eight year old grandson has a poppy that has, at its heart, the inscription, 'For my dad'. He simply doesn't care about the colour of the poppy that others wear, only that his daddy was killed and he hopes that no-one else's daddy has to die in a war.

Red or white, let's please wear a poppy for remembrance and commit to living in peace.

Fortunately, the far right has not taken hold here, as it has in a few other countries.
There is little we can do to influence voters( in other countries) not to choose far right candidates and parties.
We have never been a country who elects the far left or the far right here and I hope we never will be.

I think that our fear of Nazism should be driving us to fight against to rise of the far right that is happening now across the world. So many elected leaders now hold similar beliefs to Hitler, We must not fall into the trap of 'blaming the minority' for the ill of our country..that is exactly what the right want to happen..it is what Hitler did and ordinary Germans said it could not be happening, it was not happening...and then it was!

Great posts POGS

You may or may not have survived under Nazi rule trisher had they won the war and taken over here, but thank God they didn’t do.What they would have done is to set up concentration camps for dissidents, Jews, the mentally ill and disabled and gypsies, just for starters.
We are not merely talking about Germans here, but the evil that were Nazi ideals.
You obviously think that would have been preferable to continuing the war, Britain being occupied by them.
As a Communist/Socialist you may not have lasted long, although growing up under such a regime may have seen you joining the UK branch of the Hitler Youth Movement instead.Am pleased to see that you are the only poster on GN with this view.I have noticed that you always enjoy being seen as a bit different so am left wondering if you simply set out to try and shock as much as you can.
I think this is very likely the case.

I also think that Remembrance Day is important; how any individual chooses to mark that is their decision. Remembering does not have to involve supporting an organisation that allows support from companies that are involved in arms or weapons - it is just such an irony; and a huge shame as I am sure that they do good work for disabled servicemen. They need to make sure that their hands are clean.

trisher

I have read your views over Remembrance Day and poppy wearing over the years and I still come back to the same position.

We choose to believe what we think about Remembrance Day . What colour poppy we want to wear is up to the individual but trying to impose our view on others who hold a different opinion is a waste of time .

It is up to the individual to decide what they choose to do but anybody that uses confrontational rhetoric and preaching their opinion will never do anything other than antagonise, which I might add I believe to possibly be the intention of those who insist they have the right to lecture and not accept others views of Remembrance Day and what colour or if any poppy others may or may not wear.

My personal opinion is men and women have fought for my privilege to be able to speak freely and I think Remembrance Day is important to remind us of their sacrifice, you hold another view but I would not ' tell ' you you should hold the same opinion as me or what colour poppy to wear because you have been given the same blessing of freedom of choice.

POGS there is nothing 'decent' about war. There is nothing 'respectful' about killing innocent women and children. It isn't a 'nice' subject and if one person reads my posts and questions the red poppy, the British legion, its BAE connections and the increasing militarianism in society today I feel justified in commenting as I do. The problem with some people is they regard pacifism as being necessarily passionless. It isn't.

Wear your red poppy
Wear your white poppy
Don't wear any poppy

POGS I think the general consensus in other years has been just that - which is, in fact, why WW2 was fought and why so many died.

Freedom.

I took trisher's statement about being a nice blonde Ayrian looking family to be tongue in cheek - I hope.

My Dad would have been OK then.
Oh, I forgot, he fought Hitler.

I don't care if I am repeating myself but posts just keep coming that prove my point:-

" Every year what should be a thread that maintains an air of decency because of what the subject matter is about descends into personal abuse or disrespect. "

Wear your red poppy
Wear your white poppy
Don't wear any poppy

The choice is up to the individual but the guaranteed lack of disrespect by those who think their way is the right way is nothing more than arguing for the sake of it , or as I suspect some posters don't have any intention of seeing any other opinion other than their own.

Stating what colour poppy you wear and why is obviously joining in reasoned debate.

Stating why others should ' do as you do ' and wear one colour and not the other is illiberal and yes it does come across as virtue signalling or at best ignoring the view of others.

" How sad there is such hostility over a subject that doesn't have a scrap of vengeance about it."

merlotgran
a nice blonde Aryan looking family. Who would be expected to live and have more children.
Against what?
An undesirable dark haired Jewish family.
Who would be killed!
Some "tongue in cheek" comment ! Some joke!!!!

Jalima1108 It's not about what really happened but a fictional creation. Yes the communists were banned arrested and sent to concentration camps in Nazi Germany and yet by 1970 we had Bader Meinhoff in Germany. Individuals are killed but ideas survive.
Glad you got the jokemerlogran it seemed a suitable response to being told I wouldn't have survived

Yes there were communists in fascist Germany. They were often the first people in the areas being 'cleansed' to be got rid of because they were the political opposition. Look at Russia /Saudi etc now simply doing away with opposition by murdering them. Once you get rid of the political opposition you go for the minority groups ….

Slightly off topic, I think it's a bad idea to buy your poppy from anyone other than the British Legion. It's primarily an appeal. To support their work with exservicemen and their families. The money should go to them alone.

Also, I'm not in favour of these poppy brooches you see nowadays. Pay once, and then zilch for the rest of your days? Missing the point I think.

I am just so thankful that we managed, with our allies, to win the war against the nazis. When I think back to the small child that was me at the end of the war I cannot bear to think of her having to learn that awful "heil Hitler" salute. So thankful that did not become part of my childhood.

I took trisher's statement about being a nice blonde Ayrian looking family to be tongue in cheek - I hope.

Wouldn't have looked good for my dark haired, brown eyed family.