Mumsnet & GN a threat to transgenders?

Someone we know is changing from female to male.
She had a prolongued period of counselling before the doctors agreed to go ahead with what she wants.
Started in her mid 20s.

The issue of how we deal with this apparent epidemic of trans gender people is highly problematical - my deepest concern is for children being influenced by this media frenzy.

If a between-ager realises she is becoming attracted to another girl, she does not have the life experience to realise that the conclusion need not be that she should become a boy, but that she is gay or just going through a life transition in the context of a massive hormone surge.

These children need protecting from the strident trans activists an given time and love to work out what is going on.

I find the bullying tactics of activists totally abhorrent and lacking in real concern for the individual.

Saw an interesting expression yesterday: "angry groups are vindictive groups". Such groups do not try to persuade, only to destroy.

This is not just activism , it goes beyond that . This type of threatening behaviour is gaining traction and I think Parliament needs to debate this problem, if it hasn't already, and make it unlawful. Exactly. Well said, POGS.

I think boycotting has a legitimate place in any campaign..but violent threats or behaviour are already illegal.

The point is there has been an attempt to , well I guess you could call it for what it appears to be, blackmail GN into policing it's own site by threat to it's business. Also that entails telling us as members we cannot discuss the issue.

It is not about the emotive issue of transgender related opinions or factual evidence which has been spoken of GN from time to time.

This is not just activism , it goes beyond that . This type of threatening behaviour is gaining traction and I think Parliament needs to debate this problem, if it hasn't already, and make it unlawful.

I would hope so paddyann, but I'm not completely sure. Predjudice takes some cracking.

I have two young friends transgendering now,they dont know each other so aren't influencing each other . They live 50 miles apart and are from different branches of my family.
It was my decision not to tell them about each other.Once they have completed their treatment I might introduce them but at the moment I think the family members who are vocally opposed would blame me for influencing them

.Both these boys who were girls are under 18 .Both know without any doubt the route they are taking is the one for them.Both are happier than they were as girls and both have received support and help from most of their families ,their communities and their schools.

Sadly its the older family members who are so disapproving and downright nasty .People mature at different rates and we need to recognise and accept that young people know themselves better than anyone else does.These people have always existed, its times that have changed and they feel rightly that they should be able to be open about who they are .Its not so long ago we criminalised homosexuality and caused untold damage in lives.Surely we've learned from that ?

I'm with Justin too.

Thanks PECS for the links, I've read them very quickly. One of my relations is a gay activist, has been since age 17. I enjoy his insights into this complex issue. Another relation is struggling with his/her gender identity and has expressed real anger towards so called TERFS.

I'm a feminist. I struggle with the notion of the loss of private female spaces which we've fought very hard for. I wonder if I could be seen as a TERF?? Is that in truth the term of abuse that transgender women see it as?

Luckygirl, I haven't seen the programme but my own feelings are with the mother who decided not to help her daughter seek gender realignment at age 12. Puberty is such a difficult time, let's help children in confusion get through that before they embark on life changing drugs and surgery. I read recently about the signifiant number of individuals who having made the transition, find themselves still unhappy and wanting to transition back.
As for the issue of the male prisoner who self ID'd as female and managed to get himself placed in a women's prison. My view is that some people are more focussed on sex than others. Some people are sexual predators, that man was a sexual predator. More men than women are sexual predators. I'd be very cautious about allowed men who have already been convicted of offences against women into women's prisons. Do we need prisons or special wings for transgender prisoners, maybe.

Luckygirl, I think your comments are right on the money. And any child under the age of 18 to 20 is much too young to make such life altering decisions. In many of these cases eventually the "child" realizes that they were wrong about this all along. They had been pressured by either their peers or their families. I know a young woman who was raised by lesbian parents and she just took it for granted that she was a lesbian also. She grew up, married another woman, had a child, and lo and behold the partner dumped her shortly after the baby arrived. This young woman took some time to evaluate her life decisions, began seeing and making new friends and she is now very happily in a relationship with a very nice man. So many of these "activists" are ruining the lives of so many young people because they feel pressured to go a certain way. This is wrong on so many levels.

That difficult period of pre-puberty should be respected as a time of transition and uncertainty about identity and be allowed to run its course before irretrievable steps are taken.

I saw the two mothers on the tv Luckygirl and I agree with what you have said.

Do you know, I have got to the point where when this topic is aired, I totally lose the plot - so many different terms, so many strident voices. Those trying to defend their rights are shooting themselves and lots of others innocent people (who are trying to sort their lives out) in the foot, as people just switch off.

I wonder how people will feel when they look back on this in 50 years.

What I can see is:

- some people feel they are the opposite gender to their genetics.
- it is hard to fathom how best to deal with this, especially for children and young people.
- the more strident the activists become, the less the subject can be dealt with sensitively for individuals.
- once a bandwagon is on the roll then reasoned discussion goes out of the window.

Interesting article in Radio Times for this week, with two mother and their different responses to their child expressing a desire to be the opposite gender. One has gone with it and the child (aged 12) has "identified" as the opposite gender and is about to embark on prevention of puberty by drugs. The other said no to all this and advised waiting - her daughter has stayed a daughter and is now happily in a lesbian relationship.

That difficult period of pre-puberty should be respected as a time of transition and uncertainty about identity and be allowed to run its course before irretrievable steps are taken.

I think that we are all trying to get our heads round this issue and understand it.
Certainly reading some responses on here make me think of aspects of this subject in a different way.
Pecs, I think a full page article on the front of a newspaper is a little different than the debates that go on here. I don’t think we set out to inflame the transgender brigade even if it sometimes looks like it.

My auto correct defaults to their …. "but there are..."

We are allowed to discuss the issues! I am not sure which trans activists are trying to shut down debate... but their are 'extreme groups' in all campaigns.

There are some radical lesbian groups that do not want TG m to f to be able to identify as women but other lesbians who support that 'right' Same division of opinion as in the straight community.

There is concern amongst some TG groups that being TG is seen as a mental health issue and is being 'medicalised' when the individuals concerned do not believe that is right.

I struggle to understand all the complexities of non-binary etc. And the whole debate has been exploded by the recent sexual assault by a TG person in a women's prison on women inmates.

Well said Justine !

Why are we not allowed to discuss these issues?
It is indeed a way to learn more about transgender issues.

Anyway, how do we know how many Mumsnetters and Gransnetters are transgender?

Sorry. Other than I believe …..

For balance here is another perspective!

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/10/metro-newspaper-full-page-ad-attacking-transgender-reforms/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Buffer&utm_campaign=PN

There is a lot of division in the LGBTG world on this issue. I am still getting my head round the complexities of what some individuals are coping /not coping with before I can begin to think what my stance would be. Other than open discussion and a desire to understand another persons perspective is the only way to resolve difficult or conflicting opinions.

These activists are just being activists for the sake of it. They should be firmly squashed.

I agree with Justine too. (Does anyone care that some women may feel threatened by trans-gender activists?)

I'm totally out of touch with the world now. I can't keep up with this latest phase. I read an article in the paper this morning about the BBC telling staff how to refer to others. When I got to the phrase non-binary my eyes started to glaze over and I went on to the recipe pages. Something I can understand.

Paraphrased it says that trans activists are trying to persuade advertisers to remove their ads from Mumsnet. Justine Roberts is apparently determined not to give in to trans activist bullying and wants to carry on supporting open discussion (free speech) about trans issues.

Good for her.

I can't read what it says - could someone elucidate this for me?

Fun to be considered influential, though!

While on the subject, if you're interested in the trans agenda and the government consultation for trans self-identification, Fair Play for Women have an easy-to-fill-in response.
fairplayforwomen.com/email/