Dementia and bank cards!

I could get a degree on POA for Financial Matters and the associated problems. My daughter, learning disabilities, cannot count money, tell the time or understand numbers or distance at all. Can communicate well and listen but cannot understand consequences and she lives on her own with very good support. I obtained PoA for Finances while it was felt she had slight capacity for finances, but things went from bad to worse. Her eyesight has become very bad and she is blind in one eye and so couldn't see the card reader to tap in her pin number so would ask the checkout assistant to do it for her. Also use to take out £100 at a time ATM as she understood £10 notes and her taxi driver would get it for her Anyway, she has now lost capacity for handling her finances and it is a lot easier as we can now do things our way without having to get her sayso which is the case if they have capacity. I now have all her money paid into an account that I run and I transfer money to each every couple of days. Each day I ring to check how much she has and what she is expecting to buy or do and I then calculate how much she needs. She still uses the ATM but can't take out £100 at a time because I don't let her have that amount. The taxi driver will still take money out for her fits a bad day and she also has the pin written down but the risk is lowered because she never has a lot in her account at anyone time. I have also scratched out the security code on the back. There will always be a risk but the answer is to get it as low as possible. You can obtain PoA online, its user friendly, and don't need to go through a solicitor, however you will have to get a Drs letter stating he has no capacity for finances or health as well. Good luck.

Sadly I have too much experience of this and the carer has to make some difficult decisions. One of my worst was having my mother's cooker disconnected.

Quite!

Just to mention, in case of anyone else getting hold of the card, it's often advised where dementia is concerned, to scratch off the security code on the back, to prevent anyone using it online.

My husband had dementia and it is horrible seeing them going down,really feel for you.
Could you get him one of these cards that you top up,this way he gets to keep his card but you have control over how much money goes into it,if he is needing to get something more expensive one week then you can put extra in but no risk of him losing all his money.
His pin he could write down in a format of a birthday, say 5.5.65 and put his name by the side that way he can have it written down but no one else would notice.
Very best of luck with it and in the coming years

Speak o his bank with his permission we didthis and we both have a card to pay things. Mam is completely gone in mind and body now so was the best thing.

It is NOT necessarily TOO LATE to obtain a Lasting Power of Attorney. The person can have a diagnosis of dementia and still be capable of understanding the principle of making other people their Attorney in order to assist them with their property and finance (and health and welfare for the other kind of LPA). Many in the early to mid-stages do resist this, but can often be persuaded on the grounds that they might have a fall, or the flu, and would not be able to get to the bank. The Mental Capacity Act allows for a person to make their own decisions on any particular matter, where they have the capacity to do so. The LPA can be registered immediately (it takes a few weeks) and then you will be able to assist your father with things he needs help with, until he is no longer able to do so. Explain to your father that an LPA requires an Attorney (the person named to act for you) to act at all times in your own best interests. I have had to set up LPAs for my late husband and my father, who both had diagnoses of dementia at the time. I have also set them up for myself, naming my daughters as Attorneys for me. At the moment, they don't have to do anything, but they might well in the future, should I break a leg, have a stroke or develop dementia etc. etc. My advice is to contact a specialist Solicitor for the Elderly( sfe.legal ) and get LPAs set up for Property and Affairs and Health and Welfare. Do it NOW before anything adverse happens and before your father loses any more capacity. Good luck.

My very dearest and bestest friend of over 40 years has been diagnosed with Dementia. I talked to her husband about power of attorney and now it's all done, he said it was the best move and £90 he had ever spent. He is happy and contented she will be okay should anything happen to him, but most of all financially safe and secure. He was diagnosed with prostate cancer, thankfully the chemo has worked, both in their 70's, owns big bucks house outright, so she could have had a lot to lose if that security wasn't in place and someone to oversee the financial side of matters for her gives them both peace of mind along with the 5 children. Got to do it however whilst they are fairly of sound mind. All paperwork on the internet ready to print.

Sorry to annoy but PLEASE do read the posts Philomena and Mahon the lady already has LPA

Get Lasting Power of attorney at once. You can do it online if you visit the government site . I did it myself online , it cost £160 I think, for both Financial and Health certificates. My friend went to a solicitor who charged her £600.00. If i can do it anyone can.

It is not necessarily the case that you will not be able to get a LPA - it all depends how much capacity your Dad has. His GP should be able to advise on this.

I think to be honest, I would contact the bank, and make an appointment and take dad with you to the bank, if you can. Now then they can ask dad to withdraw some money without using the paper, he won't be able to do it and the bank will see this and give him another card with ltd amount of money in, and you will have the card to the main account, if he is reluctant then he still knows and understands he needs to go and get some money. If he is on benefits you can get that transferred to your bank and still a little bit of money in dads account, so he can still go to the bank, then you are not going behind his back you are protecting his money, and he will take more kindly to that, but when he can't go to the bank, and use the machine you can transfer that amount over by talking to the DWP and the bank

helena it is a horrid disease. Best have a word with his bank as you have LPA. See what they suggest.

Thank you all for your help and advice. I do have a LPA and know I can withhold my dads card, but it feels like I am betraying him. He has always been such a proud and independent man. Alzheimers is such a horrible disease.

Difficult one.
Agree with others it is too late to obtain POA if the person has a dementia diagnosis.
This unfortunatly happened with my Mil.
However the bank has allowed my DH (her only child) to use the card on her behalf and also pay her bills through the bank.
They will also speak to him on the phone to discuss any banking issues that may arise.

We have her bank statement sent
(Care of) to our address as it was often missing, destroyed.

Money and it's value can be 'lost' to a dementia sufferer causing vulnerability issues

My grandmother suffered from Alzheimer and became very generous with her money,
over paying the gardener for instance.
He was (thankfully) very honest and just returned the money to my aunt.

I think M0nica has given you an excellent suggestion. If it were me, I'd do that.

Another tactic would be to see if the bank would agree to limiting how much cash he can take out in a day - say £25 or £50. That way even if someone sees his pin and gets the card, there will be a limit to how much they can take out.

Once a person has lost mental capacity, they will not be able to appoint an LPA. If the person’s family or friends then want to be able to make certain decisions on their behalf, they will need to apply for deputyship.

It’s probably too late for him to sign over Lasting Power of Attorney as they need to be in full possession of their mental faculties to grant LPA.

Could you confer with the bank to only have a small amount in his hole in the wall account so he wouldn’t lose much if his pin was found and used by someone else and change his pin to a simple one his age twice for instance something he hasn’t yet forgotten depending on the severity of his dementia of course

Your bank should be able to give him a card where he signs rather than uses a pin. I has this same problem with my Mum. Her bank worked with me and helped to keep her safe until my power of attorney was registered. If he writes his pin down he is very vulnerable - there’s no comeback if someone fraudulently sees the number and uses it. The Alzheimer’s Society website has lots of help and support for you. Sending ?, it’s really hard to tough it out with loved parents with dementia.

You need to get financial power of attourney now, really. That does not solve your immediate problem with the card, though. One compromise would be for him to retain the card, but not be able to use it with the ATM, but only over the counter inside the bank. The bank should be able to help you here.