Not such good news

I haven't commented before for two reasons. One is that I am sure my response is the same as everyone else's, which is to hope for a good ending.

The second reason is that I have no specialist knowledge or information to contribute so there's nothing else for me to say.

In short you need to calculate atmosphere pressure over the water plus weight of the water over the diver to work out air usage.

A shallow cut off pool with a cut off chamber of squeezed air over it will make the water more dense so the air usage may be higher there than in a deep non cut off pool which has areas open to normal atmosphere.

So its a case of overestimating gas requirements without loading up the diver so much that they get stuck/trapped. Difficult.

It is all so so tragic... for the boys, the diver who died his family and the parents watching and waiting.. I guess the boys do not realise just how bad it is/will be diving out.. ever hopeful of a good outcome but not sure it will be....
Thanks GN for the updates

An experienced rescue diver is there who reckons that the caves aren't that difficult to navigate and the water is shallow so the oxygen lasts well.
Apparantly the deeper the dive the less time oxygen lasts and the caves aren't that deep with water.

that doesn't sound right to me because water pressure (and its affect on compressed gasses) are measured in bars (barrs?? not sure how it's spelt)

but you cannot measure bars the same way in a cave as you would in open water. for a start the trapped pockets of air over the water are already compressed and adding pressure on the water. "Normal" bars account for atmospheric pressure at the given altitude.

So its not about how deep or shallow the water is, that's applying open water diving theory to cave diving and it doesn't work. Here the pressure of the air pockets have as much of an effect as the depth if not more.

Re Fifa, the boys need something positive to hold on to whether they make it out or not

Please don’t let’s start the victim blaming- there’s enough of that going on elsewhere on GN. Please. I’m sure all the circumstances will be looked at afterwards but for the moment, they are there and brave people are helping

It seems a bad idea at any time. imo.

I am devasted for them all
Please God everybody get out safely ..poor innocent children just wanting to be kids .. and now facing this terrible plight ...I pray so much for them ...
Anybody would have to have a heart of stone not to be utterly moved by all of this ;0(

What on earth were they doing down there in the first place?

Devastating .. the whole world seems to be praying for them
God bless the dear man and may his extraordinary bravery not be in vain ... traumatic all round ... I’m terrified to hear the news just incase the dear children cannot escape .. the poor families ... may the Angels be surrounding them now with their love and comfort ...Please God EVERYBODY get out safely

Apparently it’s a rite of adolescence that local boys will run into a (?the) cave to the back - a kind of bravado ‘dare’ - to scratch their initials onto the back wall. Dangers are known, hence the ‘bravery’ of doing it. Boys will always be boys but tragically in this case the flash flooding occurred. A nightmare for all concerned.

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/family-friends/thai-cave-coach-lost-entire-family-aged-10/news-story/f707d6791ab0424c4321ce327951a25d

I presume from the beginning of July has been thought to give some leeway.

I also read somewhere that a guard (?) outside the cave entrance let them in. Perhaps that is where the two people to blame came from.

Not that indulging in blame is going to help anyone.

Rainy season is normally from the beginning of July to October. I saw this in a report I read yesterday. The boys went in the cave on June 23rd, presumably believing they had a week's grace before the monsoon rains. They had been in the cave before.

I'll see if I can find the article this info was in.

It is a very very sad situation that a life has already been lost in the lengthy rescue procedure.

I feel very proud when the world comes together and works together in a major recovery and rescue like this.

However, I cannot understand, nor have I seen it written anywhere, the reason why a group of youngsters were taken to the caves at this time in rainy and monsoon season when we've already read that it's a no go area in the rainy season.

I may have missed this somewhere but I'm asking the question every time I see a report that does not address this.

I pray for all to be returned home safe and sound with no further rescue casualties.

Nelliemoster I don’t understand your thinking about prosecutions of ‘ two’ leaders ? There is only one young coach as far as I ve read and it is a cave that people do go in obviously not where they got to but I think as the rain cane they tried to get away from it and got totally lost and too deep to get out don’t forget they were in total darkness I think it was a simple adventure went badly wrong

Such a terribly sad thing ..........I wonder if that coach who took them down there knew anything about caving, or the monsoon approaching .....totally irresponsible and now he has put the lives of 12 boys and himself in jeopardy ....... I hope against hope something can be done to rescue them ..the reports said they are getting weaker, which is not surprising .....it is however good to see people rallying round and forgetting differences of language or culture, and so pleased that billionaire has sent help. Sincerely hoping for a good outcome, Sadly I think I saw on the news that the method they used for the Chilean miners (boring a hole down to rescue them) cannot be used here, as they have tried to find a suitable location so far without success.......fingers and everything crossed Bless them and their parents so awful !

IMO, the blame lies squarely on the coach who was stupid not to realise that rains were imminent. To take youngsters into dangerous situations without a thought as to what might happen when/if flooding occured, particularly and especially as none of the boys are swimmers and certainly not divers...was ridiculous and incompetent in the extreme.
I'm hoping, as we all are, that no more lives are lost in this rescue attempt.

I have followed this on the news but not on social media. Everyone can come up with a “Why don’t they...” but unless you have been in a cave you can’t appreciate the difficulties that can be encountered. The system under discussion seems to run the gamut of these difficuties. All caves are wet to some extent (you will never come out of the most benign systems dry, that’s for sure!), but some systems can flood in minutes as a result of sudden unexpected rainfall. I am praying for these boys, and am thankful that the Thai government are accepting all the help that is offered to back up their own efforts and resources.

Nfk yes I agree. Too awful and worrying for words.

I'm so affected by this that Ive been in real distress imagining how everyone involved is coping.
It's horrendous.
There seem to be so many wonderfully compassionate and competent people involved, but it must be a mammoth task to coordinate.

Have been following this closely on the news. Heart breaking. Hoping they can get the boys out safely, but it looks like an impossible task. Let's all keep our fingers crossed for a miracle.

BlueBelle . Good to see a billionaire putting resources to help - and thanks to everyone who goes to the trouble to give us links to read the truth not speculation. I recall someone posting an unkind comment about the man in Grenfell whose fridge exploded - insinuations he got his family out and had time to rescue belongings. That man because of social media had threats to his life and as the inquest proves was innocent.

If they get these poor lads out the first thing they should do is to prosecute the two leaders for gross negligence.
It will be cause for celebration if they do get them out
I hope the leaders do not get any praise or try to look like heros for their total stupidity.
This is a classic moment to praise our UK attitude to health and safety. Caves and mountains can be very dangerous.

Nfk - I agree

haven't posted before but not because of lack of interest BlueBelle, but praying hard for this to be resolved in a way we can all rejoice. I was born in Thailand so have a deep connection. Just proves what a small world we are and if sports (aka world cup) and tragedy, like this can unite us in common humanity and spirit we can hope for the future for our world, Rest in peace to the diver and thanks to those who are with the boys - Im sure everyone of us would be if we could in life or in spirit - but all willing them on.