What do you think a femisist is?

I'm not keen on watching women footballers, not that I watch any kind of football but it doesn't seem to be the done thing.
Do women play rugby also ?

I don't have a problem with Olympics for both, even including weight-lifting, caber , shot-put, discus and hammer-throw.

Coming back to this thread I havebecome even more interested in things which have been denied to women. For example working down mines. Women were banned from this which really annoyed a group known as the "Pit Brow Lasses" reading about their efforts to have their work recognised are fascinating and highlight how middle class men tried to impose restrictions on working class women www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/women-nineteenth-century-mining-lancashire-pit-brow-lasses-mines-collieries-act/
The banning of women from playing football is another interesting event. In WW1 women's teams attracted huge crowds, but women were banned by the FA in the 1930s.
And until the 1960s women were considered unfit to run a marathon. It wasn't until 1967 that Katherine Switzer did it in the Boston Marathon
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathrine_Switzer
The assumption that there are things women can't do has held women back, but the assumption is usually wrong.

Those who do have certainly made a lot of money out of it to add to the other " non-jobs " that there are.

It's never bothered me about men and women being on an equal footing or not. It's not something I'd make a song and dance about.

EllanVannin, Or in days gone by gone down the mines using explosives & digging for coal. Yes there should be respect & equality in the workplace but we have to face it there are some jobs women could not do as well as men,nor would they want to & equally some jobs women can do far better than men.

Any women emptying bins anywhere ? Going down sewers ?

Vickixx While women are valued more for their looks than their character or intelligence, they will tend to value themselves more for their looks than their character or intelligence. Chicken or egg?

Another point to mention on the subject of women and looks in the workplace albeit not in all professions. Take for example the wonderfully talented presenter Holly. I think even she would be the first to admit if she wasn’t also very beautiful she might not be in the position she is in today. We have to admit situations like this is something else,despite how much we disagree, that will simply never change.

So very true absent and well said. I don’t think we will ever see the day though where girls and women are not recognised for their looks as well as (hopefully) their achievements. The posting of photos on social media with an obvious desire to being described by their friends etc as stunning,gorgeous,or beautiful,speaks for itself. Some things will never change and I believe this is one of them where young women especially are concerned.

Although much has been achieved in the fields of work, education, equal opportunities and equal responsibilities and a lot, but not enough in the area of equal pay, I think we still have a long way to go with society's attitudes. For example, pretty still trumps intelligent, in lots of ways. Even many mothers and grandmothers, never mind fathers and grandfathers still tend to compliment the girls in the family on their looks rather than their intelligence or achievements. Do you remember David Cameron congratulating Andy Murray on being the first British Wimbledon champion for umpteen years, completely overlooking Virginia Wade's win in 1977? Sports' commentators still refer to the men and the girls at sporting events. There is no malice in these sorts of reflections, just thoughtlessness but the accumulation of such remarks tends to make girls and women feel lesser – and that is not right. The men I mix with all respect women and admire their skills and achievements but still sometimes have to be pulled up short when they talk about a "girl" in her twenties, for example. I know we are not really supposed to refer to other posts but there was one recently that involved family conflict because the daughter-in-law's job entailed a family move abroad. It is generally accepted that if the man of the family is offered a job in another city or, indeed, another country, the family will move. Even now, many are shocked if the family move is because of the woman's job opportunities.

Feminism is not just about equal pay and equal access to jobs, it is about accepting that men and women should have equal respect, regard and acceptance by our society for who they are and what they choose to do with their lives.

One more ? A woman who tailgates me in the car in an agreesive manner thinking she is behind a man. Sad really, despite my belief in equality of the sexes. We have unfortunately turned society into a them against us scenario which is just wrong when we should be encouraging males and females to respect each other & work together.

Iam64, I was not suggesting that we should not be supporting each other. my little story was a demonstration of how we don't always support each other.

To me being a Feminist is integral to being female. It means wanting/fighting for equal rights and opportunities. It also means being respected as a woman. I have always wanted Equality - but not 'Sameness'. I am not a man, nor would I want to be. I was always angry that roles traditionally carried out by women were so undervalued and looked down upon. That anyone not wanting a career was considered uneducated or dull. I can vividly remember being very angry at being told off by my father for not helping my mother when my 3 brothers were sat on their a*@#s. I stood my ground. My MIL used to 'Tut' loudly because DH used to come home from work and cook, but so did I. However, when I took a career break, I did most of the cooking, but not all - I made it quite clear that Childrearing itself is a tiring job, and I would not be doing it all!

And at the time I didn’t really know about same sex relationship etc , but I did know panic !

I suppose at the end of the day Iam people are people and there will obviously be the whole spectrum of attitudes from kind , timid , average , violent , caring, subservient, serious, humourus,bullying, domineering etc, gender has nowt to do with the soul & behaviour of a person. But I can tell you as a young girl I was pretty nervous of a butch female(strident& hairy) who took a shine to me. I had to think pretty quick to extracate myself from the situation!

I have also met feminists who’s behaviour has been on a par with the worst behaviour we find & detest in men !

Ok Bridgeit. My reaction to your hairy legs comments was triggered by hearing similar comments, made seriously, on a regular basis in the 70's and 80's.
I've enjoyed the ManFriday campaign on self ID at the outdoor swimming lakes.

Absolutely not Iam64, but neither do I beleive you can’t have a sense of humour AND STILL be supportive of woman’s rights equality etc, I find that often it is this lack of lightheartedness from some, & I stress some women that backfires on the very equality we deserve .

Women need to support each other 'Tweedle24, now as much as in the past. Read that Bridgeit - Hairy legs & armpits or strident business woman.
Is that really how you see other women ? Especially those who put their efforts into attempting to improve the lot of other women. Just a bit sad if so.

Hairy legs & armpits or strident business woman?

I think some women still should, Tweedle24. Take the blame for inequality, that is.

I was one of two daughters who were never “taught” that we are equal to men. It was just accepted.
I went into nursing which was a female dominated profession but, at one time in the 70s, the RCN published stats that only 10% senior managers were female despite 90% of the workforce being female.
I was once talking to another staff nurse about an ongoing pay rise appeal. She refused to sign a petition saying, “ We don’t need a pay rise. Women only work for pin money”. At the time, I was divorced, bringing up a child on my own and paying a mortgage.
Maybe, in the past, some women should take some of the blame for inequality?

Yes good post Trisher. I come from a family of almost all women . Even Dad was the only male of 6 children. Both grandads too.
Many are or were strong assertive characters, a few quite militant feminists. Though I wouldn't say that about myself - I'm more laissez-faire, compromising.
I think some feminists, by trying to show they're equal to men, forget about their own natural feminine strengths.

absent many of us who had the privileges you describe have been aware of this and have been very aware of the lives of those not fortunate to have the same supportive home back ground. I was at school with girls whose parents thought education was wasted on women and have friends who came from similar backgrounds.

But I do get fed up with the victim led culture of many younger women these days, who like to see the recent past as a period of relentless male domination of crushed women who could do nothing without their husband' or father's consent and were utterly dependent on men financially, a sort of mini-Saudi Arabia.

In fact over the last century at least, there has been a wide variation of attitudes and practices. The experiences of those of us who grew up in homes where gender equality wasn't an issue, it was so ingrained in the family psyche and who then went on to work successfully in male dominated environments is just as valid as the experiences of those less fortunate and just as common.

yes indeed, well posted trisher.