What do you think a femisist is?

I can't help feeling that those of us who grew up in a family where daughters were valued as much a sons and who then went on to university and satisfying careers do not have much idea about the lives of those women who did not have those kind of advantages.

Trisher ??

trisher….well said (posted!)

It is interesting that 100 years after the vote was won we are still debating this. And that some of the aims of the women's suffrage movement have been lost to us. They wanted "Equal wages for equal work", they wanted an end to sweat shops, better working conditions, and proper care for the poor. And a real feminist stays true to those aims.
There are still not enough women in Parliament, so as a feminist I support the 50/50campaign 5050parliament.co.uk
There are not enough women at the top of the medical profession, or the legal profession.
The fight for equal wages has become the fight for an end to zero hours contracts, which affects both men and women.
And care for the poor has become the fight for proper pay and decent benefits so that. no one has to use a food bank.
Much as I dislike the pink toys and clothes my GD is exposed to I do not think that these are the things which will prevent her acheiving her true potential. I do think the present obsession with looks, and with creating beauty, might. It has spawned a culture of self obsession and lack of concern for others. I only hope we can counter this and redevelop the spirit of care and concern which was always at the heart of feminism

GrannyK…(grin) haha!!

GrannyK I hadn’t even noticed! ?

I know this is a serious subject - but when I first saw the topic of this thread, I thought: Oh no, now we have a femisist - someone who insists they're a feminist

I know it's a typo in the heading!

Trade is the most important factor in stopping wars. (the upside of commercialism!)

Once the chaos that war brings has stopped , trade can produce the cash needed to build a society.

There after a country can regulate all kinds of different ways to produce a more safe environment.

A number of recent international studies have shown that the way a country treats women is the most significant single factor for assessing the most peaceful, secure and safe countries in the world. A peaceful and safe country is also more likely to be an economically prosperous country. That's a pretty powerful statement. And that's feminism at work at a global level.

Eloethan,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't know, I think there are bigger fish to fry for feminists (actually for all of us) now a days. Rather than concentrating on a headline grabbing self interested small group.

I think I've already said several times now, that I understand these particular women have a valid point (to expect equal pay).
But women in general have more relevant and problematic difficulties that deserve our attention more.

As for libraries, they did have all kinds of information and offered a chance to see life differently.
For example to see the all consuming commercialism you mention. Giving people (male or female) the chance to decide for them selves what needs changing. Rather than blindly following others.

So less libraries, means less informed young people, who then buy into valuing themselves as just commodities, (as they have been brought up to expect) who don't realise there are better ways of living, one of which might be raising the bar for womens lives ie feminism

A bit simplistic but you get the gist!!

Anyway, too tired to go on anymore!!

Nansnanny What has fewer libraries and fewer books got to do with feminism?

Do feminists agree with sex trafficking? I think not.

You say that young women say "I can do as I like. I am equal to a man and you can't tell me what to do".

Do young women say that? I think many of them are well aware that there is a great deal of effort exerted on them to accept that they can't do as they like.

They may be of the opinion that they are equal to men.
What is wrong with that? Why is it wrong that women feel that men do not have the right to tell them what to do or how to behave?

You refer to "a few women in highly paid jobs complaining that they are not earning the same as men". You referred to them as "whining, privileged women". They may be privileged in the sense of they are earning a lot more money than the majority of people are, but why are they more privileged than their male counterparts? Do you think it is right that a woman doing broadly the same job as a man should be paid less money, even accepting that they are better paid than most other people?

I think you will find that a lot of women who call themselves feminists would agree with you about the trivial nature of celebrity culture and the marketisation of women's faces and bodies. Making women feel dissatisfied with their appearance provides a huge market in weight loss businesses and cosmetic surgery.

I agree with snippets here and there with what lots of posters say about feminism.
What it means for me is having not only the same pay structures as men and the same career choices but having equal respect from ( and with) men, and in that, there is a long way to go.Unfortunately, as Polly says, in some areas and attitudes we do seem to be going backwards.

I was actively involved in the women's movement from the late 1970's. I remain puzzled by the number of women who decry feminism, say they hate its very name and suggest that feminists are in the main, men haters who alongside that, will do anything they can to do down other women.

For me, feminism is part of me, part of my life and my relationships. Things like maternity leave, women being able to have their own bank account, mortgage, HP agreement and so on are now enshrined in law.

Something that young women in their 30's tell me, is they left University, started work where they had identical salaries to their male friends. Those young women are now earning about £10,000 a year less, still in similar areas of work (private sector of course). They're also having babies and are finding that the roles they left for maternity leave, often change or disappear. We've a long way to go, although we've made huge progress in our life times.

Looking after your children is every bit as important as having a ‘career’, probably more so. It is very undervalued now. It seems to me that children are often the lowest priority in people’s thinking, an extra to be sorted out once the parents’ careers are decided.

It has always struck me as odd that the nanny/childminder who looks after children is considered to have a job, whereas if the parents do it it is not a job. I suppose they mean a paid job.

Agree, Granny23, Many posters here were exceedingly lucky, or are young grandmothers, if they did not have to ‘pause’ their careers during the years before maternity leave, or pay, were introduced.

I actually think its more of a mans world now than ever.

My view (for what its worth) is that feminism is a redundant argument for many people.

Bare with! Bare with!!! (Miranda fan ) don't blow a gasket just yet!

Young women cant see how much they have bought into the
'I can do as I like.....I'm equal to a man and you cant tell me what to do',
influences that are everywhere

I would argue that we have lost the where-with-all to actually see the truth of womens (and at times mens) lives.

Times change and young girls now only see celebrity as an ambition. With the likes of the Kardishans and others baring all as often as they can for cash and fame.

The education system is letting children of both genders down. Narrowing their horizons.
Less libraries with less decent books. Gone are the days when anyone could access all types of information, and please don't cite the internet as a good replacement. Lots of research shows how the internet narrows peoples searches rather than widens them.

Women with children have to be thankful for part time work. No glass ceiling for them.

Women are trafficked here for sex, how did we let that happen?

And what makes the headlines? A few women in highly paid careers complaining they aren't paid the same as the men around them.

No they aren't, they tell the truth about their situation, but really, come on why should we care?
Their argument sounds like privileged whining not feminism!

Whilst they have a point.....and just in case some people get too cross and miss this bit I'll say it again.
They do have a point, but it doesn't make them a feminist to argue it, it makes them short sighted, well in my book anyway.

Interesting topic Thanks!

Being a feminist just means you are aware of the staus quo. As a second-wave feminist I think it is amazing that there are still so many anti-feminist females but am also heartedned at the new ways the young are dealing with the issues of gender. To fight for rights to be an equal human is basic to me. I think if the gender roles were accepted to be broader there would be less gender confusion and the consumer fantasy end of the pinks and princesses has forced a sad confusion on the young. But they will sort it out and we will support them. Basically if you don't want to totter areound in high heels it shouldn't mean you have a gender issue. If you are a woman and not a feminist you are deluded if you are a man and are - thank you. Of course there are advantages of being a woman in a male dominated society if you behave yourself. There is a lot of misogyny about and it doesn't all come from men tragically.

I agree that clothes and toys are much more gender specific than they were when my children were growing up in the 1970s. Girls clothes came in all colours, and toys likeego were neutral and not gender biased. Now you have only to look in any toy shop or children's clothes shop to see the girls pink and sparkly section and the boys (non pink) section. We seem to have gone backwards!!

I firmly believe that women and men are of exactly equal capabilities, and would always have described myself as a feminist- however, of late I am increasingly disturbed by what I see as the ‘highjacking’ of these tenets by those women only interested in man bashing. It seems there is a groundswell of thought from some women that seems to deny the existence of good, decent and respectful men. And as we know from our own husbands, sons, grandsons, there are a lot others about, so let’s start celebrating the good guys as well as ( rightfully) villifying the bad.

Gap and Boden also have plenty of non pink and non frilly, for those hunting those.

Honestly the ridiculous dolly frills are worse than the pink. I am continually baffled by the market’s suggestion that I would want to dress my toddlers like some five pound knockoff Barbie. Spandex everywhere!!

Asda and H&M are quite good for non-pink girls' clothes.
Toy shops are a nightmare of gender-stereotyping, even worse than it was for DD 25yrs ago.
Girls can play football with boys all through primary school, but there are girls' teams and leagues about

paddyann
You are correct.It is no business of yours what SAHM do all day. Was it your choice to do what you did with your life.? It was my choice to do what I did with mine..
I agree it is nonsense to stamp ones feet if one doesn't get what one wants Fortunately I have not experienced this amongst anyone I know.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Men and Women are different and should be celebrated as such.

Education, employment, pay, opportunity etc should be on a level playing field and available to all irrespective of gender age, race or creed.

M0nica, I graduated with first degree in 1962, second degree 1964. I went into academia, and my job was graded like yours, with no reference to gender. I didn’t feel unusual at all. There were plenty of other women in my world, though I suppose still a minority. I barely noticed.