People are getting stupider?

IQ tests - I worked as an Ed. Psych for 26 years and must have administered at least 10,000 individual IQ tests to children.
Mostly WISC and Stanford Binet. Also Griffiths baby scales. Each test takes about one and a half hours to administer.
Those are at best a general indicator of a child's particular strengths and weaknesses in comparison with his/her peers - on that day and in that situation.
There have been several other IQ tests devised mostly aimed at adults which in my opinion are less thorough. And with adults more external factors to affect the results. eg cultural.
So I'm rather sceptical about the sweeping statement that people are getting stupider based on mass IQ figures.

They provide a guide to a child's ability, very necessary when the child may have other problems. The state primary school my children attended dismissed a friend's child as 'just not very clever' because of his reading difficulties. An educational assessment, including IQ tests not only showed that he was actually dyslexic, but that far from being not very clever, he was actually very clever. Something anyone who knew him well was very aware of. But teachers do not listen to parents and their friends, but an IQ test convinces them.

Nor is his case, the only one, their use occurs regularly in court cases when it can be shown that a defendant was of limited intelligence and unable to fully foresee or understand the results of actions he took.

I used to work with gifted and talented children and several came our way when they had been referred for an educational assessment because it was thought they had learning difficulties. IT turned out that they were exceptionally bright and bored rigid at school so had just zoned out completely and completely dissociated themselves from everything going on in the classroom, giving an impression of learning difficulties. I could go one but I won't.

I think this obsession with IQ tests not being indicative of anything, not reliable etc etc. Is all part of the anti intellectualist slant of British Society. I have never heard any one make these criticisms of EQ or measures of creativity or that holiest of the holiet statistics, BMI, which are just as approximate as IQ.

he wanted to know exactly what formula he was working with.
well, we all know the one used for black holes .....

M0nica but why do you think we need IQ tests? What useful purpose do you feel they serve?
I know a child who is currently having tutoring for non verbal reasoning ...... seems to defeat the purpose

Deedaa f GS1 is interested in maths problems generally, Fermats Last Theorem by Simon Singh is a brilliant read.

The maths in it is explained extremely well and clearly - I am mathematically challenged but followed it easily - and the book itself is engrossing.

As for Hawking, if he’s asking the questions then he will follow A Brief History of Time itself without much trouble. The appendices will put him on the trail of more explanatory material - equations included!

I would not be surprised. Technology today makes people lazy. When I was at school we had to use our brains for things like maths and spelling, nowadays they use calculators and text speak. Common sense seems to be frowned on as well, kids are not allowed to 'think' for themselves, it's all about following the rules and NOT being allowed to take risks because of the infamous health and safety! Even a lot of 'sports days' are designed to win points for a particular class rather than an individual child, as children shouldn't have to experience what it is to come 2nd, 3rd or, god forbid, come last. Hmmmm, wonder how these kids cope when they join the 'real world'?

I wonder how quizqueen is privy to Trump's IQ, or is she just going by his own statements about his genius?

GS1 who is 11 now wants to know exactly how Steven Hawkin worked out how the big bang happened. His mother (PhD in biochemistry) tried to get away with saying he used maths but he wanted to know exactly what formula he was working with. Hopefully he'll get interested in something else before he realises how little the rest of his family know about it!

But what is the alternative? Many of the figures we use to measure all kinds of things are flawed, for example BMI but in the absence of anything better, they are better than nothing.

A lot of what we refer to as General Knowledge is cultural, so an American's concept of what smart people know is different from a French person's. Similarly an older person's differs from a younger person's and a scientist's differs from a historian's. They all know lots of 'stuff', but it's different stuff. I'm sure some scientists are interested in history, so they cross the divide. Lots of school children know lots of things we don't - how to sort out the computer, Sky box or mobile being cases in point. My top set 11yr olds would have known how to work out the 6th row of Pascal's Triangle, alledgedly the hardest question ever in University Challenge, maybe pencil and paper would have helped, but they could have done it quickly, a couple maybe in their head.

I thought that IQ scores had been largely discredited.

Talking about Satnavs, a few years back I was driving my grandson to Farmer Parrs, a petting farm near Fleetwood.
I could see it on my right hand side, but the Satnav said turn left!
So what did I do? Well to cut a long story short, I eventually arrived at our destination.
I am still fascinated how Fax machines operate.

luzdoh - I have just been looking at google maps to try to locate exactly where the plantation mentioned in the novel I am reading is located.
I'm getting rather cross because I know the area and keep thinking things like 'the heroine should have turned right, not left, there!'.
Then I have to tell myself 'Jalima - it's fiction'!

rE /ˈstjuːpɪd/ ; NAmE /ˈstuːpɪd/
(stupider, stupidest)
more stupid and most stupid are also common
OED
Sorry MargaretX, “stupider and stupidest “are correct.

this dumming down has been going on for 30 years or more. DH lectured in German at a Northern 'plate glass' 'university in 1997
The text was Red Riding Hood in German of course. The professor told him it was too long1 DH said he couldn't shorten it, the full story being well known and hardly too long to read.
The Prof then said that the text was more than one page and the students would be overwhelmed.

These students were learning at a University.

Bye the way I think an IQ of 125 is Ok. Mensa have a test for an IQ over 130. -or did.

more stupid is correct, and actually you couldn't easily say stupider

Used to do do? nope, he used to do it!
time for my next dose of medication....

Fennel
"I can sit for ages poring over an ordenance survey map"
Me too! Once I visited my youngest at uni, at her flat-share. She said she'd have to spend some time with her science group or something, which I knew beforehand and didn't mind. Half way through their project discussion one of the lovely lads looked at DD and said "You've left your mum on her own!" DD: "Oh she's ok. Anyway I've given her the Map Book of Sheffield" she carried on doing the project and realised it had gone quiet. Looking up, she said to me afterwards they were all staring at her as if she were quite daft. In our family it is known as "Mum's autism" that I sit for hours and hours reading maps. My dear, very autistic cousin used to do do.

Jalima1108
"the places where sat-nav inexplicably sent us"
What a great discussion thread!! I have been along gated fields opening (and closing - not hilarious when you are on your own and the cows have sh...t all round the gates) about 6 gates until the "road" eventually petered out completely. More recently, I was going in completely the wrong direction. This was the first time it has ever happened, but it was really disconcerting. Luckily I do have a sense of direction so I did manage to get back to a road with road signs. I wondered if SAT NAVs are getting worse?

M0nica But is University Challenge a measure of general population intelligence?
Also, I think the questions are somewhat selected to represent the academic backgrounds of the contestants which explains why you don't remember many maths and science questions for your team. By saying you don't remember many science questions raises the importance of a wide education and not encouraging people into early one-sided specialisation. It makes for a very narrow career choice and an ill-informed populace.
My daughters and I have watched Uni Challenge since they were little. I get frustrated by recent classical modern music questions but they have a perfect right to be there. However I don't think they are harder than other music questions were, just harder for our generation.

I just don't think University Challenge is a barometer of the intelligence go the Nation.

I think that dependence on satnavs could deprive a person of the ability to map-read.
I have often had to use my map-reading skills to get us out of the places where sat-nav inexplicably sent us

It included climate, although, obviously not, climate change, geology, oceanography, map reading and map projections as well as the study of countries, industries etc.
and crops - who can forget the Canadian wheat-producing prairies? Once learnt, never forgotten

mic on google I could find people who believe the earth is flat
I met one - a lovely person and she was extremely convincing

Well I'm saying nowt about place names and geography because I was hopeless at it.
But I love map-reading, I can sit for ages poring over an ordenance survey map, especially if I know the area anyway and I've walked in the area.
I think that dependence on satnavs could deprive a person of the ability to map-read.

Barmeyoldbat. Am I right in thinking this was a recent question ?

Twice as Nice. Our children have the option of state school free education and no doubt there are many of those with this form of education who have made a success of their life.Those who want to get on in life will get on , regardless of whether mummy / daddy can afford to send them where they can ''better''!!! themselves. You either have it in you or you don't have it in you.

Lets balance this. I occasionally watch University Challenge. I was on it back in its early years in the 1960s. I think the questions now are a lot harder than the ones we faced. To begin with when I was on it there were very few science or maths questions and the team I was in were all humanities students. Music now includes more than just classical music and a much wider knowledge of quite arcane popular culture is expected.

I was asked by an American where I came from, the UK, England said I. Oh thats great and where did you learn to speak english.
I blame a lot of the lack of knowledge on family time. I can remember my dad getting a map out and discussing various countries, we discussed current affairs etc. These days I don't think parents do that as there is far to much screen time for both parents and children.

KatyK Aww Bless! She knows her place!

Remember? "I look down on him because I am posher than him" "I look up to him and down on him" "I know my place"