I woud hate my children to be in the same position.....

Silverlining47 - Other posters here have more useful advice than I am able to give. However, I worked in an administrative role on a Care of the Elderly ward at our local hospital. We had a number of patients who needed to be discharged into care homes and it was always difficult to find care homes for those suffering with dementia - many care homes do not have the staff equipped to deal with their additional needs. I'm only saying this because, in the case of your MIL, it would be time-consuming and difficult to find another home suitable AND prepared to accept the additional needs of your MIL, another reason they may decide to leave her in her current setting.

I really hope you get it sorted - if all your MIL funds have been depleted, you should not be responsible for paying towards her care. This is not an indication of how much you love your MIL.

Zorro21 Council care homes, when good, are fantastic - my DM was very happy in the one that she lived in. However, OP has stated that In this case the local council run homes have a poor reputation (one was highlighted last year for abuse to the elderly) so I can quite see why she is reluctant to consider them.

Zorro21.I doubt you will find a'' council owned' care home. Care homes these days are privately owned and it is these that are used for Social Care.. There are also care homes which offer' in house' nursing care and highly unlikely Social care /Council would use. Being too expensive.

Hi, you do not have to pay the top up fees, I assure you that. Please get a financial assessment done by social care. If she has no savings, they will pay the lot. Is it a case that she has a property that you are trying to preserve? If this is the case, then I can see why you might be trying to pay the top up fees, but if no property, then you don’t have to do this and I think you also need to explore if she really would be moved?

No - you don't have to pay top-up, and the Local Authority would have to justify the disruption to your MIL if they proposed to move her, which I do not believe they would unless she is in a very fancy care home, especially if you look like you will put up some resistance. L.A.s are very good at bamboozling you into thinking you must or should pay. They usually come to an agreement with care homes over how much they will pay if there's no gullible relatives to top up (sorry if that sounds harsh!) However, your problem is persuading your husband and SIL that you do not have to pay. Perhaps do the research first so you are armed with the facts before broaching it. Good luck.

Silverlining 47.Did you personally put your relative in the care home or was it instigated by Social Services?

There is no need for you to pay the fees, stop paying at once. but tell Social Services. The Council are legally bound to find a place for your MIL. Dont let social services bully you. It would be a good idea, if you can afford to, get legal advice.

Silverlining - I am sorry if I seem obtuse, but what is wrong with a Council Care Home ?

Silverlining 47.
I have been given to understand and please correct me if wrong that if the person needing care has savings over a certain amount and own their own property then the property will be sold and part of their savings used to pay for their care. I cannot believe that you as a relative will be responsible, again correct me if I am wrong.
Any one who pays council tax will now find there is a percentage in their tax which will go towards social care.

I thought they could make you pay for someone's care only if you received the proceeds from people's homes when they left to go into care or their home was signed over less than 7 years earlier to you.

Can't understand why you are paying for her care.

Dementia IS a physical health problem not a mental health. Google NHS Continuing Health Care and also visit a site called Care To Be Different. You should NOT be paying for her care. Do some research then be prepared for a fight! Hope this helps? ?

But when I read it it stated that I would be responsible for her fees. I just passes it back without signing

That's shocking Barmeyoldbat How bloody underhand can you get ?

I remember being conned into taking responsibility for my late grandmas final rent, electricity, gas accounts after she died by naively agreeing to them sending the bills to my address (addressed to me). I hadn't realised that housing benefit stopped the moment someone passed away and so agreed without thinking. I know a very different scale to what you could have potentially "signed up for" but disgusting none the less.

That is appalling!!!

Monica is right, you do not have to pay. I am in the same situation but with a daughter, I have PoA and so pay her contribution from her money. I had a visit for her financial assessment, at the end of it he passes me the form and asked me to sign on the dotted line. I said I need to read it first and his reply was it’s just that you will pay her fees. But when I read it it stated that I would be responsible for her fees. I just passes it back without signing. Her care has continue in the usual way. My advice is don’t pay. However hard it is.

There are some brilliant charity-run homes...my mum was in a care home run by a local blind society. (You didn’t need to be blind to qualify) We were never asked to pay for her care.

Kittylester and Luckygirl thank you so much for sparing the time to answer my post.
You are absolutely right about what MiL would (or wouldn't) have wanted. She was a sweet person who didn't like any unnecesary attention or fuss or 'being a nuisance' to anyone.
Kitty thank you for the link to the Alzheimers online forum.....that's very interesting.

Ah - so it is the top-up you are paying.

You are not obliged to pay this, but I understand why you feel you have to.

However there are ways around it. As ga says a smaller room might be an option; or indeed refusing to continue to pay the top-up if it is compromising your financial stability. Care home places are not plentiful and they may have nowhere else to send her.

I am going to sound very hard-hearted here, so forgive me. Just as you would very definitely not want your children placed in this position, then it is highly likely that your MIL, when of sound mind, would have felt the same.

I have been in the position of having to move several people with dementia from one home to another, and it does cause disruption, but this can be minimised by being around regularly at the time of the move and immediately after. TBH, some folk simply had no idea that they were somewhere else. It does of course depend on her stage of illness.

If I were you I would go and look at some cheaper homes - have a really good look; go back several times. My parents (at separate time) went to the cheapest option - not because we did not care; but because it was the best for them - it suited their needs much better than many of the so-called "specialist" homes. It was less formal and clinical and they loved it.

Does MIL own a property which will be sold in the fullness of time? The LA can put a legal charge on this that means they have first call on the funds when she dies - the LA then recoups what they have spent.

My strongest advice to anyone at the beginning of this process would be to say you cannot afford to pay a top-up.

www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/20013/talking_point_-_our_online_forum

The link to talking point

If I were you I would consult the Alzheimer's Society, AgeUk and the CAB. I have heard of cases where people have refused to pay the top up and nothing happens. There is a huge argument that someone in your MIL'sposition should not be moved even if you stop paying.

You could also try looking at the Alzheimer's Society Talking Point Forum to see what others have done in your situation. Other gners have said how helpful the site is.

I'll post a link!

Silverlining I do understand your problem; I'm the Chaplain at a local (outstanding) Care Home and relatives, understandably, worry about moving loved ones and disrupting their lives when the money runs out. There are no easy answers I'm afraid, but do check with Age UK to ensure that everyone is getting the maximum allowances - sometimes there are ways to squeeze a little extra out of the pot. Occasionally a move to a slightly less expensive room in the same home is possible and doesn't cause too much stress for the resident.
My own family were in a situation some years ago when my husband's gran was in a very expensive care home and the money from the sale of her house was about to run out. We too agreed to fund her care so as not to have to move her, but she died just a couple of months before we came to that point.

mcem, yes, we are paying top up fees at the moment. Thanks for your repy.

Surely the local council are contributing. Are you saying you're paying top-up fees and feel you cannot now afford to continue?
You must speak to SW dept/Age UK and make absolutely sure she is receiving all she's entitled to have.
An acquaintance is having care at home, 24/7 and self-funded, which is very expensive but SW do still make a significant contribution.

I understand Silverlining - what a complicated situation.

I feel very sorry for you, the situation and the lack of clear cut way to proceed. I hope there is a way forward .

Nanaandbgrampy, if we just stopped paying I expect she would be sent to a council carehome. We have the funds to pay at the moment but ironically one of my husband's mantras has always been ' It's easier to start caring/treating/paying for something than knowing when to stop'. This is a case in point. How many months or years are ahead of us......or it could all end tomorrow.