In restrained lioness mode

VampireQueen...what can you actually do? The answer is nothing. Your DDs inlaws are pants but without your SIL sticking up for her, there is really nothing you can do except commiserate with you beloved daughter.
If you go in all guns blazing it would undoubtably make it worse for you DD and what is worse, maybe her marriage.
They would take critism from their son as he will always be their son, but they inherited your DD.
It's their stupid loss. I was in this situation with my short sighted MIL and my husband never supported me against his Mothers jibes. Now I am a MIL I am extremely careful.
It's bloody painful though and I am not minimising your pain with the situation in the least. Protecting your children from harm is a primary instinct but this one has to be left with your DD and her wet husband.

Would it be possible for you to have a quiet word with your SiL and point out it is his job to defend your DD from unpleasant and ignorant people ie his parents and you think he needs to say something to his parents about treating his wife with the respect she deserves. I would be furious too, but I would definitely say something.

It's possible DD isn't really upset by it. I had similar in-laws - in fact worse as they were actually rude to me about my appearance, clothes etc - and basically we all just rolled our eyes and allowed ourselves to be mildly amused behind their backs. Not everyone reacts by feeling hurt or upset when faced with a rude relative. Personally I would let DD set the tone. If she's ok with it, just carry on as you have been.

your DD is a saint. Your SILobviously enjoys the attention and doesn't expect to include your DD. Now he has DD accepting he is the King of the castle. Only your DD can put him right.

I empathize Vq the one and only time I was at DD's house and her FiL popped in I greeted him by name in a friendly manner and was totally ignored.
ex SiL would not allow H and I to visit at the same time as his parents.

Gosh, it all sounds so amazingly familiar, I love Gransnet - so much cheaper, convenient and MUCH better than going for counselling!

My darling stepdaughter has an MIL and FIL who are very VERY keen on being the main, best, primary grandparents. MiL also wants, it feels, to be mother to my stepdaughter (her mum died 25 years ago, ie about two years before I met her dad). We have been turned away by these in laws, and I was once physically pushed away, and told by them that ‘they are there to look after the children’!

I was initially very upset, but came to realise that the pair of them are rather needy and addicted to being wanted. I honestly don’t think that our son in law sees it.

My darling step daughter now sees it and like your daughter gets peeved but maintains very good relationships with them for the sake of her husband and their children.

I don’t understand the in laws myself, these relationships are not competitions, love (to my view) grows and being unkind to others can’t be good for their karma.

I now remain polite, call them rude names under my breath, and we try to make sure that we don’t go when they are there!

Seasons greetings to everyone, and hope that everyone has a happy and peaceful Christmas ?????

Your daughter needs to ensure that her husband gets his parents to treat her and you with respect. If she allows that behaviour to continue it will eventually affect the marriage. She needs your guidance and support.

Have to confess to keeping out of the way of dd's mil who was conspicuously absent when the gc were small so it was only us to help with childcare. Didnt mind usually but sometimes it would have been nice if she had offered occasionally. She has just started to help now they are at school.
We arent close and only see each other briefly once a year, which probably suits us both i think. Its a pity and not what i would have chosen but it is what it is.

PS as before, wonderful book ‘Toxic In laws’ which I bought second hand on Ebay for £2.50 or so. The psychologist author divides toxic people/in laws into five main groups:

1. Engulfers
2. Controllers
3. Rejectors
4. Abusers
5. Chaotics

I would add another group, ‘Takers’.

We respond to different people differently, and our actions may also be misinterpreted as toxic by others.

The book has changed for the better how I respond to toxic people, not just in laws but also colleagues, neighbours etc.

Happy reading ?

Vampirequeen.
100% with you and your feelings BUT let the other side change the nappies and have sleepless nights.You admit your baby time is over. What baby will remember who did this or who did that.? This is but a small part of a childs' life. Babies soon grow into kids who then grow into adults who will make their own decisions. Any control the in laws now appear to have will be short lived as far as grandchildren are concerned.Take my word for it.
Your daughter is a grown woman let her deal with MIL herself. Can you not let this childishness from the opposition wash over you.? They appear immune to any one else but themselves so let them have their moments.
From experience my kids 'got away' with far more and got more attention where my MIL was concerned than they got from my mother .This did not appear to affect their feelings or their opinions and as small children and then into adults both grandparents were loved and respected equally.

SIL is a nice lad who’s easy to get on with
No, he isn't a nice lad. He allows his mother and sister to treat his wife with contempt. Either he is so self-absorbed as to not notice it, or he thinks treating her like that is just fine - does he treat her that way too?

You can't do anything about his family, but if he doesn't insist they treat his wife with more respect, he's not much of a husband.

* VQ* I understand how you feel, but stay out of it.Those parents are strange and selfish, but your DD seems to understand the situation and they are helping with the children.
Some parents do seem to dote on their sons more than their daughters.

I expect your DD is quiet and SIL doesn’t notice much ( men often don’t.)

Sorry, not had time to read all posts so hope I'm not duplicating. I think you should just vent on here and anywhere else you can but not to DD or any other family. If you vent at DD you may make her discontented when she was already able to cope. Just my opinion.

Sorry, but until your SIL decides to 'grow a pair' and stand up to his domineering mother then this will continue. He must be aware of the situation and it is his responsibility to tell his parents that until they can treat his wife and her family with the respect and courtesy they deserve then they are no longer welcome in his or his children's lives.
You must have brought your daughter up to be either extremely polite or she is allowing herself to be bullied... if this was me I would have refused them to have anything to do with my child until they learnt to respect me as a mother and wife.

Sorry but this is all in the hands of your SIL. He knows very well what is going on and the remedy is in his hands, What a wimp not to tell his parents to either respect his wife or stay away.

Your DD trusts them enough to have her children stay with them overnight. They can’t be a bad!

I am in a similar position except that while treating my DD as an interloper, MIL and SIL’s sister show scant interest in my three gorgeous DGCs so I share your feelings of an enraged mother bear Vampire Queen.

All of which would be easier to cope with if they didn’t live on the other side of the world. My gentle kind DD has suffered loneliness and cruel barbs since she arrived there. SIL is treated little better since he committed the sin of bringing home a Pommy girl 14 years ago and an adopted one at that.

He does stick up for her but on the whole doesn’t want a family war. I want to give them a piece of my mind but I know I cannot do more than tell her how much we love her every day and try to keep her pecker up, especially during every other week when SIL is away at work. They have recently moved further away from these nasty people and made new friends and that has helped.

I agree with Lilyflower this MIL is showing signs of a personality disorder. It is not normal to behave in this extreme controlling fashion unless she has serious emotional dysfunction. Those close to her would have to do as she demands, trapped in her coersive abuse. Your DD is clearly showing emotional maturity in the way she is dealing with her but I agree I would be as angry as you are seeing this going on as it is a form of domestic abuse. It's very difficult when small children are involved, they will not know what is or is not abuse but they will be noticing it as they get older. Their mother will always be their number one love, they will not like seeing her and her mother being "left out" . Just keep being as loving as you can to all of them. You're right to feel angry at witnessing rude and controlling behaviour. Let your daughter know you love her hugely, tell her in front of the children, let your side of the family be about love, not control.

My late MIL almost always ignored me. She didn't mean to be hurtful, basically she was just thoroughly insensitive & worshipped granddaughter. It got on my nerves, sometimes extremely, but I kept quiet, because she would never change & I didn't want a family split. She wasn't at all malicious, or intentionally rude, just dim when it came to relationships. She meant well & was hugely generous to granddaughter after she grew up, despite her limited income. They had a close mutually supportive relationship that enriched both their lives. Some things are best left unsaid in family life.(Though all I ever got was a Xmas card!)

I would think its up to your SIL To day something. Maybe even you DD could ask her in laws what she has done to offend them putting the ball in their court. Or maybe it doesn’t really bother your DD. I know we want to protect our children but in this case you can’t interfere on her behalf.

Tbh I just needed to vent last night. It's nice (but sad) to realise that there are other DDs putting up with this sort of behaviour. There is nothing to be done about it.

DD and SIL have discussed it and decided to let it go rather than cause a huge family blow up. It's not as if she's openly hostile or says anything nasty. She simply acts as if DD isn't there. It winds DD up when they do it but she vents when they leave. There is no doubt MIL loves the grandchildren and is good to them hence DD doesn't worry about the children staying with MIL. Although MIL doesn't seem so keen as they're getting older. Perhaps she's a baby person.

The thing that wound me up was the way they ignored DD as if she wasn't good enough to be with SIL. I don't care if MIL ignores me. Like I said in the OP that's her loss. You can walk all over me but upset my baby and out leaps the lioness.

I think I would continually try to engage them in conversation, greet them with a big hug telling them how wonderful it is to see them again. This should annoy them so much they will avoid being there when you are!!

The day she tells you she has terminal cancer you tell her it couldn't happen to a nicer woman. Nuff said.

I like that idea Oldwoman :D