BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

POGS I am reading this morning that sources are saying the only possible deal outside CU / SM is the Canada deal.

Reply to Mem above....We certainly do NOT get back more from the EU than we contribute. The UK, along with France and Germany, are net contributors to the EU budget. Look up your facts before you spout such rubbish, please.

Oh dear quiz the box ticking won’t take very long. There is only one other country in the world who will be able to do that.

Mamie

5. Leave with a deal.

Oh dear, and the media and many public figures continue to say it's the Brexiteers who aren't very bright! Now Reminers are admitting for themselves they have no idea what they voted for either! Everyone I know who voted to leave has a degree and a LOT of common sense.

Basically, does it make more sense to pay a sh*t load of money to have a supposedly 'Free Trade deal' and be told what to do in almost every aspect of your life by a governing body that doesn't put your interests first or is it better for a country to make its own decisions just like the rest of the rest outside the EU does. Fancy that, being able to make your own decisions about things that affect your own country. What a novel idea!!!!

Yes, it will be a rocky road ahead for a few years as the EU has no intention of giving the UK any sort of decent deal before we leave because they are terrified that other countries will wake up and want to leave too. We can just trade under World Trade rules at first just as all the EU States currently do at the moment with all countries they do not have any free trade deals with ( that's most of the world actually), ... and, guess what, nobody has to buy any foreign goods if they think they are too expensive. With the billions we save from not paying into a Customs Union club the UK can decide whether it gives that money to the NHS, farmers, researchers, small businesses, reduces VAT, pays off the deficit quicker etc. and we can start to open trade talks with the rest of the world.
Conversation with the world on day 1 post Brexit. 'Would you like a reciprocal Free Trade Agreement with the UK? Please tick the box- Yes/No?' So let's get on with it.

It doesn't matter now whether you voted Leave or Remain. It doesn't matter whether you made the decision on the toss of a coin or after analysing a spreadsheet of figures (utilising your double first from Cambridge). The referendum is over and responsibility for the future of our nation has been transferred back from the masses to where it belongs, Westminster. A referendum is the stupidest way of making any decision. It's as close to random as you can get. A decision based on a handful of leaflets and many hours of speeches that most people didn't want to listen to.

We got more money from the EU than we put in. Certainly Wales got far more money in EU grants than its people put in. All our dissatisfactions with the EU could have been negotiated. Instead, we had elections for MEPs who never told the electorate what they were doing or what they wanted to achieve, and we had UKIP MEPs who didn't even turn up for debates. As a nation, we were the disruptive kids at the back of the class, attention-seeking all the time. We've now given our government the perfect excuse to starve the NHS and our schools of funds. We can't afford it - because of Brexit. Maybe one day, in ten or twenty years, we'll be able to afford it again.

No missdeke there are choices. Broadly speaking:
1. Hard Brexit - no deal.
2. Canada deal.
3. EEA / EFTA.
4. Withdraw Article 50 and remain in the EU.

Which would people choose?

There is only one actual fact about leaving the EU and that is no one knows how it will all pan out, will it be better? Will it be worse? Depends on your point of view I suppose. Same as where would we be now if we hadn't joined the Common Market? What if we had come out in the 70s after the first referendum? It's all butterfly wings, chaos theory. We are coming out and that's that and we'll just have to get on with it whatever the outcome.

sunny yes all that information was out there before the referendum, but very little of it was covered by those wanting Brexit. Unfortunately most of the media supports Brexit

I have been to a couple of talks about Brexit from academics specialising in European Law, trying to get an unbiased viewpoint, because all the newspapers of course have their own political slant. It seems that our affairs are so intimately entwined with the EU that to Brexit is unbelievably complicated and will tie up the civil service, the lawyers and an awful lot of time and money probably for about as long as it took us to get so firmly embedded in the EU in the first place. Hardly suprising I suppose. What I didnt realise is that the EU is a legal entity and not a sovereign one and that means it can only act within the legal framework by which it was set up. It wasnt set up to provide any half-way house, either you are a member or you are not (arguably it also wasnt really set up to provide an exit route either). Currently that means talk of transition or implementation whereby we can slide gently out of everything over a period of time to cushion the blow, doesnt actually exist legally. Whether the cliff edge departure would trigger a collapse of the pound is conjecture but I know where my money would go on that issue.

Re -Germany I know that, but you are making the same mistake that Trump made.

mimms for someone with a double First, I am surprised at the amount of incorrect information you are basing your decision on.

Whitewave - we do. Merkel "hopes to be able to make the full payment by 2020" - bearing in mind Germany's huge reserves, why not now?

I find reading Bloomberg covers most of the main points without it being too partisan.

www.bloomberg.com/brexit

Good analogy, Nemo.

we get massive amounts of money from the EU ...any problems ith infastructure is the BRITISH governments failure to use the money as it was intended .Wait until the cash stops rolling in for areas such as Wales and Cornwall and see how they manage.Honestly do you believe the Tories will find money to replace those millions lost?Minniesmum

ECJ European Courts of Justice.

Jess 1. Status of EU nationals in UK and UK nationals in EU.
The problem is Polly that none of it is simple. It is immensely complex, enshrined in years of legislation and covers hundreds of different areas. The Richard North blog posts, the evidence to and reports by select committees, plus the papers published by the EU on the Europa site provide the best evidence that I have found.
Maybe it would be helpful for others to add sources of evidence?

Thanks JessM . That helps. Except what is ECJ?

Re Germany - we don’t

No-one, not even the EU or the UK government knows what will happen BECAUSE IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET. Yes I am shouting - it is bad enough the Remainers on The Times being patronising and insulting to Leavers - I really didn't expect it here. Just for the record, I voted leave and have a Double First from Cambridge so thank you Whitewave for suggesting that a lack of intelligence was the reason I voted leave.
I voted leave as I took a good long look at the future plans by the EU and didn't much like what I saw. Further and closer union - do we really want to be a sub-statelet of Germany and France? I don't. We are the third highest net payer into the EU - does anyone think our payments will go down - nope, me neither. We are paying for lovely new roads in France and schools and hospitals in Poland and Eastern Europe whilst our own infrastructure is going down the pan. We will be expected to pay more and more and I think we pay far too much already.
In order to appease the remainers, the government seem to still want an agreement but most of us are coming to the conclusion that this will not happen. Maybe a clean break would be for the best.
Whilst on the subject of Germany, one of the richest countries in the West, why can't they pay their fair share into NATO. Why should we support them any longer?

Having read the first page I guess this is a remainders blog. Safe to say I won't continue much longer. I voted to leave and still feel it's the right move. Try reading the history of Germany from the late 1800s and their wanting to have a united Europe under them.

I wish we still had John Cravens Newsround! He used to explain stories clearly and simply giving the Background. I think a lot of adults enjoyed it.
I am also confused about what it all means. I voted remain but not for ant clear reason except I thought vaguely that it had given us peace in Europe for 60 years and although corrupt was better than beingbon our own. I think we were all poorly informed. Can we not have a discussion on this site without people sniping at each other? I have friendswho voted for brexit for equally vague reasons and we are still friends!

OK Bluegal I'll give it a go. GCSE answer. Feel free GN members to give marks and feedback.
1. the detail of leaving the EU is massively complicated despite the simple slogans and promises of the Leave campaign.
2.the EU have said there are 3 areas that need some clear agreement before the UK can start talking about how the trade will work i.e. customs tariffs for different things
3. The 3 areas are: The status of EU nationals living in the UK. There's a broad brush idea that they are welcome to stay but will need to "register" and that EU workers will need to have a job offer or a job, or they can't stay. The Irish Border - this is v complicated because if customs charges are introduced then the 300mile long border, with 200 road crossings, will need a way of handling customs. The broad brush statement is that the UK want this to be "frictionless" but nobody seems to know what that means, and Irish government worried. No government at all in N Ireland at the moment as the main parties can't agree. The third key issue is the money. PM says we'll "meet our obligations" e.g pensions of MEPs but government don't want to get pinned down on detail cos whatever the cost, there will be an outcry.
4 Some of the barriers are to do with the Court - the ECJ - that is the ultimate arbiter for many things. (Not human rights though, different court) Issues like who has the right to stay in which country would ultimately be judged by ECJ. But the PM has said we'd have to set up a new post-brexit court that would do this kind of thing. This makes little sense
5 People are very worried about things like the regulation of medicines, rights of planes to take off and land, importation of isotopes used in radiotherapy etc. No known progress in these areas.
6. Businesses very worried about what the trading arrangements will be - they don't realistically have time now to sort out computer systems and business plans before spring of 2019
7. There is a general agreement that we will need a transitional period to get things sorted. The avid "Leavers" are kicking up a fuss about this.
8. Nearly everyone is agreed that a "no deal" would be an utter disaster.

This has never been done before, so it is a blank canvas. Even the unelected elete in Brussels don't know how to deal with it. So no surprises that we are not clear on what is going on. Interestingly I gather there is nothing written in the articles that say the end date actually has to be 29th March 2019 or indeed that we have to leave at all, following our trigger letter last year. I personally hope we do leave and move onwards and upwards.

Nonnie hit the nail on the head !
We are all lied to and misled by buffoons who also don’t have a clue, so .....
Just sit back and watch the pantomime continue ?