BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

Sorry? Brexit central was set up by pro-leave.
How is that unbiased?

If you look up Brexit Central , they give regular updates , on who said what, where and when, more reliable than bias media putting their own spin on things which confuses everyone.

Places like Grimsby and Cornwall thought that leaving the EU was a great idea and voted overwhelming for it - now the reality penny is dropping and they have realised how bad it is particularly for their regions. Now these these areas have asked for monetary assistance and also to be allowed to have migrant labour etc. Grimsby wants to be excluded from Brexit as 70% of the business there is imported fish from the EU .
If the whole thing wasn't so bad for the rest of us I would be inclined to say to them that it is the will of the people just get on with it - but I also feel sorry for the way they were duped and maybe now they will realise that in a strange way the EU policies worked fine for them.

I can’t really see why brexiters are happy with the Horlicks that are the brexit talks. Do you know something we don’t?

join the club!! I, too, voted remain because I was not prepared to vote for what might happen in the future when none of it was clearly laid out.
what a mess.

Yes, we get back more from the EU than we put in. It's very short-sighted to look only at our contributions to the budget, our "membership fee". It's a much bigger picture. By being in the EU we enable London to be the financial centre of Europe, with all the income that generates. Unfortunately the ardent Leavers can only see the falses promises of more jobs in their own communities, less pressure on schools and NHS, more care for the elderly. But none of that is likely to happen, certainly not in the next ten years.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-01/the-truth-about-the-10-biggest-brexit-myths-of-the-moment

This is worth reading.

That was Heidi Alexander. No we will still belong to the EEA and need to revoke I think 127 charter to leave that.

Isn't a reason to stay that we quite liked things as they were; that we see ourselves as Europeans rather than UK citizens, and we do not want other EU citizens to feel that they are unwanted?

pogs mamie is correct. I have read the same. We have been told that we must use an existing scheme or nothing. Now whether in the long run that proves to be the case we shall see, but mamie is correct.

I can't remember who it was in yesterday's debate, Mamie, who said that article 50 does not remove us ftom the EEA. There is a separate letter that needs to be sent to remove us from that.
It was quite a long speech.

jaycee I have looked back on this thread and can’t find any links that you have posted. I would be interested to read them.

No POGS EEA / EFTA would still be possible because the UK would then stay in CU / SM.
It is the regulatory framework that applies here.

As more facts come out about Brexit the less tenable it becomes. The referendum was unbelievably divisive allowing a lot of national unpleasantness to get an airing. Brexit is highly likely to fall apart next year because of the effect on prices, unworkable customs procedures, unmasking of the master Brexiteers, the Irish Question and many more impacts. In other words it's a total mess with no benefits to the country whatsoever. Virtually everything clarioned by the leave has been shown to be misleading and in many cases totally untrue.

The hardline Brexiteers are running scared and do not know how to admit that they may be wrong. the "will of the People" mantra referring back to the 17 million does not take into account just how many lies they were fed. It is only the Tory right wing who for reasons best known to themselves actually think Brexit should continue.

counterpoint so one Leave voter, a man who is known for his dubious behaviour and should not even be an MP, is used to smear all Leave voters.
I have put up links to articles giving clear and rational explanations for the Leave position but they have not been commented on and I doubt many Remainers if any bothered to read them.
There is little point in trying to have a debate here as people's minds are closed. The arguments used for Remain often include those which could equally be those for Leave - such as the lack of proper provision or thought for the process needed for a Country that chose to Leave. That is not a reason to stay.

Mamie

Then according to your list of options there is only a choice of 1 or 4 and they are only at this stage conjecture.

The talk of EU laws as oppressive ignores the huge benefits of having certain kinds of rules uniform across the EU. It just isn't true that we're automatically better off making our own rules. One aspect of this is that if every country made its own rules on product safety, then to sell a product throughout Europe, it would have to be certified separately for each country. Uniform regulation is a requirement for free movement of goods, a vitally important factor for manufacturers. Maintaining high product standards is likewise vitally important for ordinary people, because without uniform regulations, there is liable to be a race to the bottom, resulting in inferior products in sectors where it is impossible for consumers to make informed judgements, such as drugs. And so on.

Putin wanted us to leave the EU as he prefers to do deals with single entities rather than a large group.
Strangely enough, I have yet to hear a Brexiteer say we can have lots of trade deals with Russia.

The New Statesmen is reporting that Farage is worried about the U.K. crashing out of Europe. He was critical of Gove and Johnson’s latest interference - letter to Maybot

There will be campaigns to leave the WTO next when Brexiteers realise its an international body we are a member of along with loads of" foreign countries"

I am surprised the Brexiteers are arguing that we can just trade under WTO rules- isn't that another outside body we pay money to? Whatever happened to sovereignty and making up our own rules? and as for the EU telling us what to do " in just about every aspect of life" ! Really?? 4% of our legislation came from the EU, that leaves 96% from our own dear parliament. And what a great job it does.

Jaycee5, I don’t know about every individual Brexiter, but Liam Fox said doing a deal with the EU would be the easiest ever. Many other Brexiters repeatedly made the argument that the EU wants to export BMWs, prosecco, etc to us and that would result in it being easy to do a deal. That always ignored the fact that exporters in the EU place value on the single market and are prepared to make sacrifices to prevent it being destroyed. So it was never true that the deal would be easy, as is now being proved.

Amt101, all I see here from “remainers” are rational arguments based on fact. Is that something that Brexiters don’t want to deal with?

MinniesMum, no reason why integration means we would be subsidiary to France or Germany. We are, for now, a leading member of the EU. It’s likely to be a lot better finding ways to get along with our European neighbours than trying to deal with the USA and China on our own. Nobody pays into NATO, countries control their own defence forces. Anyway, the world would be a better place if people spent less on so-called defence.

Quizqueen, it’s not really about free trade at all, it’s about being in a single market where goods can be sold to hundreds of millions of consumers without any regulatory barriers. It’s how we can remain competitive with the USA and China. Outside the EU, we’ll be bullied by the large trade blocks, and all this taking control will turn out a fantasy. Just look at the Bombardier affair. I’ve yet to hear a Brexiter explain what, specifically, has been decided by the EU against UK preferences that is the least bit important.

We also voted to remain but trying to find out the pros and cons presented in an objective way was impossible, just a lot of unrealistic promises. In the end we felt we should vote in the interests of the young since our membership means/meant they have/had many opportunities to travel and work freely within the EEC.

I feel we shouldn’t have been given this decision to make since very few members of the electorate understood the issues, including us. I am old enough to remember the referendum to join the EEC and felt the same way then.

I don’t understand the following:

Why the financial implications of leaving and staying weren’t researched by experts and presented to us before the referendum. We have been told what we pay in every week but it turns out this is a gross figure. We should have been told the nett figure and how this would be spent.

Why an impartial team of experts aren’t handling the negotiation process.

Why Mrs May stated at a very early stage what we wanted from the negotiations. She has obviously never been through a divorce.

Why politicians are happy to let it go ahead when the pound has plummeted and there are predictions of food prices rising by 20%.

It feels as if somebody is steering a bus towards a cliff and nobody is prepared to put the brakes on.

www.politico.eu/article/brexit-trade-barnier-dashes-britains-hopes-of-something-better-than-canada-deal/
Here.