BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

I voted to remain not just for me but for my daughter and grandaughter and for young people, I haven’t a clue what’s going on and I think everything else has gone on the back burner because of it.
We need to get our country up and running again.

We are spending a great deal of money and energy on deciding whether to fall off the edge of the cliff or to ab sail down it. Unfortunately the final destination is the base of the cliff we have spent 44 years climbing up. Do you not think that the "best possible deal " is the one we already have? I cannot see that Brexit can be delivered.

Totally agree, I was a remainer and am just lost as to what is going on which is very worrying!

Varian, this is the response to the Telegraph.

infacts.org/fab-15-brave-telegraph-attack-dogs/

Good on the fab 15.

Dyson was/is a Brexiteer.
He doesn't understand it himself, and made facts up on Andrew Marr last weekend.

infacts.org/james-dyson-great-inventor-fake-facts/

Varian, apparently the new Telegraph editor was trained by the editor of the DM, so not surprising.

The Telegraph has now stooped to the same level as the DM (notorious for its "enemies of the people "headline)

Apparently MPs should not be allowed to do anything other than follow the dictatorial party line. Whatever happened to parliamentary democracy?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/14/nearly-20-tory-mps-threaten-rebel-against-brexit-date-brutal/

Interesting Durhamjen and counter to what everyone has been saying.
The Brexiter argument that we can blithely cope with a "no deal" and use world trade organisation rules has one massive fly in the ointment:
The majority of our exports are "services" not goods and the WTO does not adequately cover these. Neither would the borders be "frictionless". Here are the kind of tariffs that would be applied at customs:
Tariffs on many industrial products would be 2-3%, but on cars they would be 10% and on many agricultural products between 20% and 40%.
So a disaster for UK agricultural products and other exports - overnight their products are much less competitive abroad.
And correct me if I'm wrong but these import taxes would also be slapped onto imports e.g. all that fruit and veg we import from the EU.
A lorry going from N Ireland to France, full of beef for example, currently just drives across the border to the Republic, then on and off the ferry at Dublin, without having to pause, then on and off a channel port ferry. No paperwork or anything because we're in a single market.

I am constantly bewildered by the sheer madness of Brexit and the total chaos it is causing.

I’ve been reading the government papers today about proposed customs implementation. The massive lorry park planned has been scrapped and the earliest the planning application for a massive lorry park will be 2019.

You won't get any details from Brexiteers, counterpoint.
They don't work in detail, just generalities, which are usually wrong.

So true.

‘It will be like buying a house on the basis of a few grainy photos from a dodgy estate agent who won’t allow you to visit the inside’

inews.co.uk/opinion/mps-deserve-vote-final-plan-brexit-not-vague-sketch/

Jaycee5 I didn't only mention Liam Fox. Numerous advocates for leave said that it would be easy to get a deal because of the EU exports to the UK. I've heard people saying that even quite recently, despite the evidence to the contrary.

CardiffJaguar we're not paying to leave, we're paying what we previously committed to. If you think otherwise, please provide details. In relation to the EU, a single set of laws and a single court (the ECJ) is relevant, not local laws. What legal cases have disturbed you? I keep hearing such claims, but never anything specific.

I think now we are a bit better informed , there should be another referendum. I voted to remain but I have spoken to some leaver voters who have now changed their minds and in a second referendum would now
vote to remain.

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/nobody-said-it-was-easy

11 times that Brexiteers said it would be easy.

freyja I envy you the ability to move back to Europe, the loss of that possibility will be one of the many negative results of Brexit for me and mine.

Seems increasingly apparent the referendum was targeted not only by the Russians but also by the US alt_right. Disinformation was spread via social media. This is our democracy under attack. Take back control? Yes, declare the referendum null and void.

Brexit means chaos, it's that simple. We were told a pack of lies and the so called majority fell for it, The majority being those that voted Yes, not the majority of population of the UK. Brexiteers were so gallable, they believed the unbelievable because the policitans said what they wanted to hear. Only the young and those who vote No saw the writing on the wall.

My family lived in Europe before and after the EU for over 20 years and I certainly would not like to backwards. The EU gave us so much and more rights then the UK ever did and will, sadly these will no be lost.

The real question is who gained from us leaving the EU?
Certainly not the populace of the UK or the EU. Those individuals, yes, politicians lined their pockets, either through promotion or gratitude. America, yes. China, Japan Yes, India, Russia, yes. Why because they have now a gateway to our markets and we will have no money to invest,we have no manufacturing, and we will be left out in the cold.

So those big markets we been promise do not exist. We will take our begging bowl to the commonwealth and hope they will be sympathetic to our plight and forgive us for abandoning them.

Not a future to smile about but we in the UK are tough. We self destruct when things go well just so we can pick up the pieces and start again. So watch out for a very bumpy ride.

We are considering moving back to Europe I am too old for this madness.

4. All EU Countries Must Approve the Final Brexit Deal

INCORRECT. The deal—which would also include any transitional arrangement—needs to be approved by the U.K., the European Parliament and what’s called a “qualified majority” of EU governments. Under current rules, that means the deal would have to be supported by 20 of the 27 EU governments; but they can’t be the smallest 20 countries because they have to represent 65 percent of the EU-27 population.

From the Bloomberg article at 11:49

That is the problem- don't think the general public understand at all what the actual implications are it is far too complex. Should never have had a referendum in the first place - a vote winner by Cameron that in my opinion went badly wrong.

I didn't understand the implications of in or out when voting, it appears I wasn't the only one... but I guess that is what politicians wanted. Now when I hear the word Brexit I just hear the rest of the sentence as la de la de la. I have given up.

The first point is that there is nothing in all this about fairness, except the waffle on fairness by politicians on both sides. We want out costing us as little as possible; they agree to us going as long as we pay dearly for the privilege. There is the possibility that we will not come to any agreement, in which case we will not have to pay them but they will make life for us as difficult as possible.

The point has been made that this is a 27 to 1 battle. That means in effect that all 27 have to agree to anything that is final. We just have to get a majority in Westminster to agree. Neither of these two are easy.

Most of us who voted to leave never expected it to be easy. Why? Because of our experience over all the years we have been in, not least the legal cases that have disturbed us. Being that 1 against 27 never did seem a good position to be in when they have a legal system very different to ours.

Of course there will be positive and negative results; but when we are out we will not be tied to their rules and regulations, unless we agree with them, and we will be free to control our own affairs as we wish.

There is a lot of doom mongering over here through the media and other outlets. That has been so strong that it is the one thing that most people hear. We cannot know in advance what will happen until either we have an agreement or we are leaving without one. At that time many things will be crystalised and we will be able to assess out position for the future.

Completely agree dj (11:47 post)

I am glad I have so many GN friends who are like me.This evening there is a Brexit meeting at our local British Club (I live n Sweden) this is intended to tell people what the propositions are for us mortals who are British subjects in the EU,this is being led by the British Ambassador, however there is also an EU Summit meeting in Gothenburg tomorrow, and because the delegates are arriving all day today, half of the City is cordened off, so many of us cant even get to this information meeting.I hope the Brexit experts in the EU plan things better! I probably wouldnt understand what it is all about anyway!

Every person on the team was a member at the top of VoteLeave, apart from one who set up BeLeave.

Unbiased? Do you know what that word means?