Please call your dog

Thank you Bear Grylls - what about the dogs just being on leads? - problem solved.

NanKate.

Are they going camping in the wild somewhere and are you sure it didn’t say bear and not dog!. Some unbelievably silly remarks on this thread about dogs.

None of this advice would have helped me as I had to walk through a gate with a crouching growling dog waiting for me at the other side, and no owner in sight. As I approached the gate, it went for me. I don't know what I could have done.

Gemmag The silliest remarks on the thread are the ones that tell people who are afraid of dogs that the dogs are picking up on their body language and being threatening BECAUSE they sense that they are afraid.

FFS - If you are scared shitless by an aggressive dog, then whatever the reason for its aggression your body is going to react with the usual symptoms - sweat, adrenaline, and sheer bloody fear. The dog is very well aware of them. None of these are under conscious control without a long intensive course from an expert instructor.

So who should have the course of instruction? If it were a human bully there would be no question - teach him that it is not acceptable to attack someone who is afraid of you. Ther same applies to a dog, which is a creature that can learn what its owner decides to teach him and what that owner insists on.

The owner is the key. If the master is contemptuous of someone who is afraid, what hope does the dog have of learning anything else?

I think Gemmag has illustrated perfectly where the problem lies.....

Yes, and it is neither with the dog nor with the passerby who has been targeted by the dog.

I wonder whether the same logic ("It's your own fault for being scared . ." ) would also be applied to someone who is being threatened by a mugger - "They can sense that you are too frightened to defend yourself, so it is your own fault that they are aggressive . . ."

The Daily Mail article does make one good point. Puppies need to learn to socialise by 6 weeks, this means it is down to the breeder. If you buy your dog from a puppy farm it will have had no socialisation at all. You then have an uphill battle.

We are buying a puppy at the moment and the breeder sends videos of the puppies learning different things. They are in the house so already learning to socialise with all their visitors.

We walk our dog (only one at the moment ) away from the village in forestry walks where there is only one parking space so we know there is no-one else there. Any visitors to the house are asked at the gate if they are happy with dogs and if not the dogs are shut away. A lot of this is because I do not like other people's dogs, as someone else mentioned, so I understand. Dogs are too unpredictable and should not be allowed to run free where there are people.

I bred from my spaniel with the intention of keeping one of the puppies. Sadly she only had one, and then died when the puppy was just a few weeks old. It was the most difficult dog I've ever had, and I was told that only puppies do have issues because they have no idea of pecking orders etc. Not sure if this is true but someone who bred large mastiff type dogs said that only puppies from breeds like that could be quite dangerous.

You are aware that animals are not sentient beings, aren't you?

Elegran.......

Of course the owner is the key, that is not in dispute.
As I have already said there are people who should NOT be allowed to keep dogs.

Some of the "pro-dog" posts on the thread are from people who just don't understand how anyone can find it intimidating when a dog bounces around and puts its paws up on their shoulders. They are not like the "hard" types who project their own aggression through their dog and are not fit to own a dog ( any more than they would be fit to own an automatic repeating machine gun or a domestic carving knife.) However, what they are projecting is the mindset that regards someone who is afraid of dogs as a bit of a wimp.

I feel that there are more and more dogs around these days, and a worrying increase in the pit bull type too. I get very annoyed by dogs barking at me from their houses or gardens when I'm walking or running on the public pavement and not going near their doors or gates. I'm entitled to be there!

The sort of owner who uses the 'He's only wanting to be friendly' line would be a bit taken aback if my little DGS decided that he wanted to be friendly too, and went up and dribbled all over the owner, not to mention exercising his new teeth...

You're right, Elegran. I am afraid of dogs and I am not a wimp.

Hi Gemmag yes the chapter I quoted from was about dogs. The next time I look at the book I will check on bears. ?

Yes my DS has been a bit of an explorer himself. He worked for Raleigh International as a Volunteer so worked out in the wilds of Milawi and Nicaragua and hopes to take his boys adventuring when they are older. I am not talking about a tent in the park ?

Even a tent in the park could become a magnet for a couple of "They're just being friendly" dogs to be coped with.

Apparently Durhamjen , they can considered to be sentient .

^ The ability to experience positive emotions, like love and attachment, would mean that dogs have a level of sentience comparable to that of a human child. And this ability suggests a rethinking of how we treat dogs.^

Quote courtesy of the New York Times .

Caroline Lucas yesterday tried to get Parliament to agree to animals being sentient beings so they would have rights after Brexit. All the Tories voted against it, so sorry, they might be in the US but not in the UK.

Oh for goodness sake! Of course they are sentient beings. So are a whole lot of other creatures. But comparable with humans? Noooo! They see life as a dog sees life, with a dogs senses which are different from ours. Different from cats, different from horses. All animals should have rights. Why single out dogs?

What sort of rights? Equal to humans? I'm confused. Surely an animal is just an animal. I don't mean they should be cruelly treated but I don't know what rights they should have.

NFK, tell that to all the 300+ Tory MPs who said they are not.

"MPs voted 313 to 295 against Green MP Caroline Lucas’s amendment on Clause 30 of the EU Withdrawal Bill, with SNP MPs voting in favour.

The amendment would have transferred the EU legal principle that animals are sentient beings into UK law.

OneKind, Scotland’s leading animal campaigns charity, has now called on the Scottish Government to ensure the principle is enshrined in Scottish law.

Director Harry Huyton said: “This has been a principle of EU law for twenty years. Its introduction was a landmark moment for animal protection in Europe as it recognised that all animals are sentient beings and that the European Union had a duty to ‘pay full regard to the welfare requirements of animals’ when developing and implementing policy.

“This has become a bedrock for animal protection across Europe and is a key legal principle. Its loss as a result of Brexit would be a major backwards step for animals and would send a strong message that the UK is willing to sacrifice animal welfare for economic gain.”

He added: “Whilst Westminster might be willing to take this step backwards, we can’t believe that the Scottish Parliament would.

“Today we’re therefore calling on the Scottish Government to urgently bring forward a proposal that would enshrine the principle of animal sentience in Scottish law.”

80% of animal welfare law in the UK currently comes from the EU."

vampire would have thought the right to live a normal life for that species is quite high up there.

Not "equal to humans" though - the right to vote, for instance, is not appropriate. We don't (yet) have an elected representative of canine voters sitting in the HoC on the hallowed benches. Perhaps the speaker had better put in a requisition for some mudproof throws and a few squeaky toys just in case.

This thread seems to have caused a division in the GN ranks! Those of us who are afraid of dogs are not dog (or animal) haters, we accept many look upon their dogs as great companions, we accept dogs need to be exercised.

All we are asking is that owners recognise that not everyone thinks their pet is wonderful and that owners keep the animal under control. As I said previously, I live close to countryside and there are certain fields and woods where I know dogs are allowed off lead to run and play - so I avoid those fields and woods. However, I do ask that whilst walking the dogs to those places the owners keep the dogs on a lead in order that I too can enjoy my walk in the country.

Childish, elegran. Nobody wanted them to have the right to vote.
The right to be seen as a sentient being is quite different. It's the right to be treated humanely, BY humans, not the right to be treated AS a human.

www.ciwf.org.uk/news/2017/07/brexit-should-not-be-at-the-cost-of-britains-animals

It took years for animals to be recognised as sentient beings, and now the Tories have decided they are not.
Not trying to highjack the thread, but dogs are animals, too, no matter how many owners pretend they are not.