Hugh Hefner dead

I find your analysis somewhat simplistic annie re choice. What went on the Clubs was prostitution and demeaning to women - that hurts all women not just those who may or may not have a 'choice'.

Is it fair to compare a man hooked on sex with willing young women to Saville.

These girls chose to work in nightclubs perhaps preferable to a cafe or shop. I really think we have gone too far in seeing all women as victims and not responsible for their choices and actions.

This was a time when wives couldn't have a council house rent book in her name, couldn't have HP, they could be legally raped by their husbands , these were victims not these bunny girls or girls who chose to live in the mansion.

No doubt there were several dimensions to HH, possibly some were positive, but then again Jimmy Saville raised a lot of money for charity, that didn't discount the fact that he was pretty damn evil although I accept your assertion, Annie that the women employed by him chose to do so.

Playboy magazine was really soft porn in comparison to what young people see nowadays ,and much younger,didn't you have to be 18 to buy a "top shelf" magazine? I worked in an industry where I met loads of models and would be models they thought HH was some kind of god,many would have loved a job as a Bunny .Several were page 3 girls.NONE that I recall had loose morals unless you think taking your clothes off for pictures is loose morals.Many brought their mothers to photoshoots with them and as far as I know they all settled down to married life with kids by their mid twenties .It may not have been "feminism" to most of us but it was THIER choice.

The women chose to be prostitues , I cannot agree with the all women are/were victims. If they were victims they were victims of their parents who failed to teach them of self worth , these were not fourteen year children,

I wonder if he did ?

Jesse Jackson is a man and on this point is wrong - supporting civil rights doesn't make it OK to prostitute women

nanasam apt!

Did you know HH's favourite movie was..............
Wait for it...........
Die Hard !!!!!!

sp there not their in penultimate sentence.

Interested to see what the general consensus was over on Planet MN, pretty much echoed my thoughts, but ruder. Suzanne Moore wrote about him in The Guardian today and likened him to a pimp. The conclusion I drew from MN is that younger generations are far less forgiving, I guess we mellow with age and most on GN regard him as a bit of an irrelevance, possibly because we have a far more bullish successor in Trump who dangerously presides over far more and without the faux benovolence that HH tried to exude. I remember reading an article by feminist Gloria Steinman who went under cover to work as a Playboy Bunny and she painted an unattractive picture of the way the women were treated and the deep rooted misogyny at the heart of the Playboy clubs. HH often gushed about how well the girls at the mansion were treated a bit like a proud keeper at a well run zoo, although as he descended into very old age it seemed he was permanently in dressing gown and slippers, possibly their was a reversal of roles and the young women were actually a bevy of carers. Poetic justice!

I said to my hubby today "every time I see a picture of that man I see a dirty old pervert" and all those young girls that were probably used and abused by others of his ilk!!
Was it prostitution , sex for a certain lifestyle ..yes in my eyes it was.
Peter Stringfellow belongs in same category , he gives me the creeps too .

Perhaps the world may not have been a better place without him, Jesse Jackson has paid tribute saying he did a lot for civil rights.

I have to agree with the posts saying his attitude and behaviour was unacceptable. Sadly I don't think casual sexism and low-level sexual harassment is a thing of the past.

Because B does something worse than A doesn't make what A did acceptable. And I don't agree that he didn't abuse women or cause women to be abused. Attitudes and behaviour like his sends out a message about women that is far from acceptable. Good riddance to him and those like him .

Yes I acknowlege that is a fair point merlotgran and he was of course of his time. I'm trying to imagine how the whole Playboy concept would go down today, it's all so dated and in many ways what we have now is far worse because it's often so covert.

It did make a difference to my life I worked with men who suggested to me and another female colleague on various occasions that we would make great "Playboy Bunnies", low level sexual harassment was an everyday occurance then. At the time I subliminally blamed HH.

I had to read the OP to find out who he was. So long as he didn't abuse anyone.... shrug.

At least Hugh Heffner's lifestyle was played out in the public gaze. He made his millions because people were happy to endorse it.

Far worse crimes against women are committed behind closed doors.

maryliza54, you've expressed what I felt about him. I acknowlege those who worked as Playboy Bunnies weren't forced to and the job even carried a dubious prestige of sorts. However, at a young and impressionable age I personally felt the pernicious effects of that culture, which as you say were quite nuanced, but nevertheless very evident in London at the time, it left many women, usually in a working enivornment, feeling uncomfortable.

And there are women who choose to share his life , so easy to view all women as victims ,

Anyone who wants to can mourn him or not as they wish - I gave my opinion. The whole issue of men like him and the damage they do is much more nuanced and complex than some posters suggest. He was from the DT school of attitudes to women and the world can do without that IMO

made no difference to me either Anniebach In the 70's ,which was a different time, there were many men just like him and a lot more who aspired to be like him.Its just how it was .I dont think any of the girls who lived or worked for him were abducted or forced to do it either .There will be people who knew him mourning today .

What difference did he make to the World for it to have been a better place without him?

He lived a hedonistic life, his choice, to my knowledge didn't comit a crime , made his wealth and spent it.

Never for one minute did he affect my life .

RIP

The world is a better place without him and would have been a better place if he hadn't been born. Disgusting, creepy, yuk

I remember a TV prog showing I think one of his birthday parties, the guests all had trout pout lips, stretched faces and scraggy necks -grotesque! He apparently lived with a bevy of (young) blondes who "adored" him and catered to his massive ego every whim.
I thought then , Who's kidding who?
While not rejoicing in the death of any human being, it shows you can't postpone the grim reaper indefinitely.