Gender critical trans woman

THey are men who want to identify as women as and when they wish - many of them ( all?) in this group are biologically intact and wish to stay so. If they want to transition 'properly' the current legislation allows for this. No it isn't only the children who will be victims here - in some ways we all will ( apart from this group) as undermining the rights of women will damage all of us. The 'prize' for self identification is that under the Equalities Act no one will be able to discriminate against them - if they say I'm a woman then they have to be treated as one. I think perhaps that some on this thread think it's all about giving rights to people who want to transition and no politician seems to want to talk about the rights that are being taken away from biological women. I do not want a man with a penis in any woman only safe spaces . But I want proper care and consideration for those who genuinely have body dysmorphia ( is that the right word?) that doesn't mean encroaching in my right to choose to be seen by a biological woman doctor

"In my opinion, some of the radical trans activists are seeing this as 'payback' time for the rise of women." More puzzlement from me - are the folk who are in this category not men wishing to be women? Why would they wish to attack women?

As I said above, it is the children who are likely to be the victims here.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transgender-rules-reform-gender-dysphoria-changes-2004-gender-recognition-self-identify-a7855381.html

If you read this, you'll see that it's looking very likely that legislation is shortly to come in that will allow people to simply identify as the gender they wish compared to the process they have to go through at the moment.Trans activists ( generally men) who support this change are very influential in setting this agenda. It's a pity that some of you have been so dismissive/ rude to Azie, it's become a very complex issue and there is no simple way to explain all the various groups and subgroups within it. People who are concerned, are concerned for different reasons. I'm concerned because I'm a feminist and I believe this change will seriously undermine all the advances we have made as women. It seeks to deny the very essence of biological womanhood. In my opinion, some of the radical trans activists are seeing this as 'payback' time for the rise of women. And if only it were about changing rooms and toilets! We are sleepwalking into this legislation, its the 'Emperors new clothes'. No political party dare challenge it. And yet the implications are enormous - sport, women only scholarships, the rights of women to choose a biological woman as their doctor, rape counsellor, biological women's refuges and prisons . The right of women to be safe and to have their biological womanhood and the experiences that flow from that recognised and respected

What the hell indeed! When I see or hear these discussions I feel that I have landed on another planet!

I cannot even discern what the meaning of the word critical is in this context: critical as in taking an opposite view; or critical as in of central importance?

I just want my DGC to have the opportunity to grow up in a relaxed environment with the right to simply be who they are without labels. I do not want some pundits imposing concepts on them that could be to their detriment. It is a frightening development and I simply feel sad about it.

Who cares, life's too blooming short, let people be what they want to be call themselves what they want to and get on with life in general Leave kids alone they ll find their level when times right
I too haven't got a clue what that sentence means and to be quite honest don't need to know or care subreddit sounds like a frog waiting to be called on the footie pitch

How many Gnrs understand what the poster of Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical perspective. is on about?

I have not heard quite such a feminist rant for a good few years. For once I am rather lost for words.

For us ordinary women who have not been deeply immersed in academic theories about feminism please explain more simply what the hell this is all about.
I find it very elitist to hear you present such language to this group of women,

We are not all academics and I find it very discourteous to everyone to be presented with this level of jargon.

Those of us who have not really understood what you are getting at will possibly feel put down.

If you want to make your point do it to suit your whole audience. Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical perspective. I despair! What the hell ????????????
Please rewrite clearly and in plain English.

I think my biggest concern is the young children who will be exposed to ideas that might ultimately be to their detriment. They might be better off left to be themselves as children without having to "identify" with anything at all except their own humanity.

The only two men I have known who were transitioning from male to female didn't seem to be considered a threat by any body. They did have to suffer a lot of ridicule from people who thought they were a huge joke.

paddyann Do you think that your young people have received more support is because they are females who are transitioning to male and therefore will not be a threat to either women or men after their transition?

I feel a bit clearer about these complex issues having read the links, well I skimmed yours Azie09 but found it informative. I read recently that children and young people on the ASD are statistically over represented amongst those expressing confusion or uncertainly about their gender/sexual identity. That isn't surprising is it, so many of these young people have always felt they don't quite fit anywhere. I'm not dismissing this , one of my grandchildren has begun to cross dress and talk about his confusion. Yes, he's on the ASD, very bright but socially ill at ease always.
There was a thread on this fairly recently when a number of us expressed unease at men who identify as women, but haven't had surgery can choose the female toilets and changing rooms. It's so complicated isn't it.

Isn't it strange? In an effort to be inclusive, people are being pigeonholed into little boxes with titles added.

I read all of Azie90s post and am no further forward in understanding ?

I think all the going over and over it adding additional titles trying to make sure everyone's in a box then making sure everyone's out of the box it just makes things far more difficult and complicated Why don't we just meet people on whatever terms they want us to and just get on with it without labelling people this that or the other It's all getting way to complex and futile and must mix kids heads up

Luckygirl I agree with you. I am now feeling a bit disturbed by what I have come across in trying to answer your post.
This organisation genderedintelligence.co.uk/about-us/our-aims has been involved in advising the government about gender matters. I am really struggling with their philosophy, as described on this page, and with the content of the video Tedtalk on the page.
It's as though there is a movement to make rigid something that is already fluid. I was always in jeans as a child, climbed trees, explored, rode my bike, fought physically with my brother, liked cars and football and as an adult I can use carpentry tools and like doing so, like sport and still wear jeans a lot but I am also a mother and woman who enjoys aspects of the traditionally female world too. I don't see the problem. Are there so very many inhibited and confused adults out there?
This does feel like there is an agenda being pushed by some. How hard the world is now for our children and grandchildren.

I thought reddit was what a frog says!

I confess to being utterly confused - and to being older.

But......I do not see all change as bad. I am just older and wise enough to have seen it all before - the way those who feel oppressed shout loudly and reforms occur which swing too far in one direction; and that it takes decades for this aberrant swing to drift back to somewhere that makes more sense. It is just the way of things - when blacks were oppressed, people fought for their rights, and we finished up in the mad situation where, as a young social worker, I was not allowed to use the words blackboard or black coffee - things are more sensible/balanced now, and quite rightly.

One of my DDs was to all intents and purposes a boy - she dressed like a boy, played with the boys, had no interest whatsoever in "girly" things (whatever they might be). She is now a happily married heterosexual with two children. My fear is that today a child like her will be filled with the current ideas that are being peddled, the teaching packs for primary pupils etc etc and will ask herself questions that do not need asking and go down routes that will ultimately damage her.

Azie09 - pour a cup for me!

paddyann that's quite a heated response to what is obviously an amazingly complicated situation. Great that your anecdotal stories are positive and that you actually know some young people who are transitioning and are no threat to anyone but the wider situation may not be the same. I don't think anyone has dismissed this as a 'phase' but maybe many of us were "tomboys" in childhood and later are happily female. At what age do we start getting serious about encouraging children to think they might want to change gender. It's a big process involving medical intervention, that's a pretty big step.

Many women suffer from abuse by men from staring and cat calling in the street to sexual attacks and domestic violence within relationships. What about the rights of those women when forced to share formerly private space with men who were formerly women. Whose rights should prevail is hardly a throwaway matter.

I personally know two young people transitioning from female to male ,they are NO threat to anyone and it has taken a great deal of courage for them to embark on this journey they are on.How sad that so many think its only perverts who want into womens changing rooms who are /claim to be transgender .The young people I know are lucky that they have amazing support from their peers,from school staff and from the community ...its only their OLDER (wiser ?) relatives who dismiss it as a "phase".Says it all really ,some just cant see any change as anything but bad

Thanks Azie09 for your post - I've learnt a lot!

Codswallop.

Oh and if you want to go further these people are opposing this trend and the discussion on their website gives an interesting perspective on what's going on:

www.transgendertrend.com

What an interesting post and link, well beyond the everyday world of thought most of us inhabit!

Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit which discusses gender from a critical perspective. i.e. takes gender not as a given but as something ascribed at birth.

A subreddit is a forum on the site Reddit, the latter is a website with forums dedicated to links on a specific subject www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/

The description of the Gender Critical subreddit on the site (sit up straight now!) is:

^Gender Critical is a radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical perspective. We are a woman-centered community. We do not believe 'woman' is a feeling. We do not condone the erasure of females and female-only spaces, the silencing of critical thinking, the denial of biological reality and of sex-based oppression. We oppose the 'cotton ceiling' and the pressure on lesbians to have sex with men.
"Women do not decide at some point in adulthood that they would like other people to understand them to be women, because being a woman is not an ‘identity.’ Women’s experience does not resemble that of men who adopt the ‘gender identity’ of being female or being women in any respect. The idea of ‘gender identity’ disappears biology and all the experiences that those with female biology have of being reared in a caste system based on sex." - Sheila Jeffreys, Gender Hurts^

This all makes me want to run to the hills, but after I went and looked on Mumsnet and looked at this thread and the first few posts:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2873456-Until-we-organise-as-well-as-the-transactivists-were-not-going-to-stem-the-problem?pg=1

....and discovered that there is a well funded trans lobby and that CPS packs are being distributed in schools which must be these: www.cps.gov.uk/northwest/working_with_you/hate_crime_schools_project/schools_project___lgbt_hate_crime/

and that the government debated early in the year over a Gender Recognition Act update (really?) and good practice includes A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms) appropriate to the gender in which they present.”

then I find myself thinking that if I don't pay attention and try to find out what is happening out there, it will all happen anyway and I won't like the end result. Help.

p.s. a transgender woman is a man who has identified as a woman and is therefore claiming to be entitled to enter previously women-only areas thus potentially threatening women who see transgender women as actually men (and there have been cases of men using transgender identity to prey upon women). So I suppose a gender critical transwoman is a man who identifies as a woman under the banner of gender critical, i.e. gender as not fixed. Phew, going to have a cup of tea now.

All good stuff - but what is a Gender critical trans woman?

Women have always been called names for saying no. Frigid, bitch, prude. These words are meant to shame us into saying yes.
Women are supposed to be available, welcoming, obedient, and it has been the aim of the women’s movement since its inception to challenge these preconceptions, to say no to men’s definition of us.
It is thanks to feminism that since 1991 wives can say no to their husbands and have that ‘no’ backed up by law. It is thanks to feminism that women no longer have to accept dismissal if they marry or become pregnant. It is thanks to feminism that women in the West are beginning to feel confident in saying no to men in myriad different situations.
Prude, bitch, frigid don’t sting like they used to. Misogynists in the west are losing society’s assumption that women should say yes. Increasingly, it is they who are shamed for insisting. As feminists we applaud this,but I can't help feeling that men have finally found a way to get at us without being nasty.

Oh, but I don't think that included the 'trans' part. I suppose that means something else.

From what I can work out from Google, it seems to be somebody who 'wants to be known' as a specific gender.