Children unready for school - what can we do?

I also agree that 4yrs is too soon for most kids.
My eldest DS started school at 4, and i remember crying at the entrance, just thinking he was a baby .
He had all my time so wasnt defient in most skills
.I never went back to work till my son was 10 yrs old .My DS 2nd Boy( .I have 3 grandsons) also starts school this monday next.
Although his 4 birthday was just Aug 25 th.
I think its a shame .
Hes expected to do a full day straight away too.

I'm sure most gransnetters will agree that bringing up children is not an easy job - it's damned hard work. Even for those parents lucky enough to have healthy children, a partner, a decent home and enough income not to have to worry about how to pay the month's bills.

To raise sociable, happy children, healthy and with good eating habits, fully toilet trained, being able to share, being able to communicate well and be polite to adults, able to listen, capable of holding a pencil correctly, have a love of books, able to dress themselves independently all by the age of four is really quite an achievement!

So it's great that the majority reach these standards.

Some families are not so lucky (for a variety of reasons) and their children deserve support from good state funded nurseries if they are not to fall through the net. We have a responsibility as a society to support them, as they are the future citizens of our country,

Fewer children where I work are school ready than used to be the case. Toileting, talking in even short sentences, knowing how to play with sand, paint, crayons, play dough etc. Knowing how to interact with each other or respond to basic questions e.g. "Would you like an apple?" With yes please or no thank you or even just yes or no instead of grabbing it or punching the giver. It means, as someone has already said, that most of the TA time AND the teachers's time is taken up with these children.
Is the school in a poor area? No, it's quite mixed. The children have simply not been encouraged to develop these skills and it can't solely be the fault of the state, some of it lies in the hands of the parents. I'm not impressed by the cuts in funding for SureStart centres but that's not only where the blame lies. This year, among other new starters there is a little boy with a single, working mother who is unbelievably polite for a 4 year old and keen to chat with anyone and try anything going. Alongside him is another child where both parents work, who has to be gently detached from his iPad on arrival. He has little vocabulary and has no idea what to do unless directed and supported. Money doesn't solve everything. Children need attention.

I have to say that this post is coming across as very judgemental against today's parents. I have four children, now aged 22, 20, 18 and 11. In fact, they have all recently had they have all recently had birthdays - my eldest, DD1, has her birthday at the end of July, whilst the other 3DC have their birthdays in August, so I certainly know what having children who are young in the year is like.

The changes are not just down to parents spending all their time on phones and watching TV and not paying their children enough attention. My eldest 3DC all started school the January after their 4th birthday and spent the first half-term at school until lunch-time, so they were all 4 and a half before they were at school all day. They could all attend the local nursery at 2.5 years, provided they were either toilet trained or, if not, I was prepared to go down to the nursery and change the nappy if it was soiled during a session. Fortunately, my 3DD were all toilet trained by 2 years and 3 months. My son was marginally later but I only ever had to go down to nursery once to change his nappy.

By the time my youngest DC was at nursery, nappies were accepted. When DC4 started school, she started in the September - 10 days after her 4th birthday. Within 3 weeks of starting, she was attending school all day.

These were just obvious changes that, as a parent, I noticed. I sent my children to nursery more for the social skills they would learn and so that they learned to be separated from mummy. They were all brought up to love books and story-telling. However, when DC4 was at nursery, much more detailed records were kept, with detailed pictures and notes depicting which targets had been met and which areas needed working on. This book was transferred to Reception at the local primary school - ideally by the end of Reception, all the targets had been met, irrespective of whether the child was just 5 or almost 6.

When my eldest 3DC were at school and before I had DC4, I trained and became a childminder. For the most part, I chose to mind children who were under 5 (pre-school), as I wanted to spend the time on my own children after school. I loved childminding and spent many hours chatting, reading, playing and interacting with the children I cared for. I had a short break when I had DC4 and then resumed childminding.

However, I gave up when DC4 was about 2 for two reasons. Firstly, I felt I was compromising my own child to meet the needs of other cared-for children and, secondly, there were new rules that were coming in that required childminders to keep detailed records of achievements and milestones met and examples of how different criteria were met. To me, this was not what childminding was about. I had always kept a "contact" book, where either the parents or I could write messages or notes for one another when necessary, but my belief was, and still is, that if a parent wants their child's achievements monitored, then they would choose to send them to a nursery rather than a childminder.

So, to summarise, there have been more targets that have been set in the past 10 years and nurseries have had to be more accommodating. Not all parents are lazy, as one or two of the previous posters would like to believe. Children are starting school at an even younger age nowadays.

I don't think you can blame poverty on its own for this, but Social Media plays a big role. Everytime I go out I see parents, some poor, some not so poor, walking along the road with their children, sitting on the bus with their children, sitting in the cafe with their children and so on, completely ignoring their children because they are too busy on their phones. When my children were young, whenever we went out anywhere, to the supermarket, for a walk etc I would be giving them a running commentary as we walked. And yes, we were poor, but talking costs nothing. Our kids always got a bedtime story as we weren't worrying about what we might be missing on Facebook! I feel so sorry for today's youngsters, having to compete with a phone for mums time. We also wanted our kids out of nappies asap as we had to wash and sterilise them, throwaway nappies were only used for holidays, if you could afford one. In many ways, I think society has regressed rather than progressed. We can't keep blaming poverty for everything, bearing in mind that a lot of these 'poor' families seem to manage to have the biggest TVs, the latest mobile phones and so on.

I went to school under the old LCC. We started at 4, but, we were all in one big room ( in the main building) where we had an open fire, our own little toilets, and in the afternoon our little camp beds would come out so that we could have a sleep. It was heaven. That's how all 'small' children should start school

Unfortunately if a child is not school ready it does fall on the parents.

But that is not to say that they would be bad parents, we all know how difficult it can be raising children and not everything that should get done is done.

It is just one of those things, hopefully school what do what school is supposed to do and get children to a level that they are meant to be

As well as being sure that four is too young for school I also object strongly to schools constantly referring to "work" for these infants.
There is no place for work in the life of four year olds, who have just left babyhood and have a whole exciting world to explore through play. Sitting down to learn to write can wait, it's not something they need to be able to do.
Those recalling experiences many years ago must remember that we and our children normally started school at five. A year is a long time to small children and there's a big difference between just- four and nearly- five.

My 4 year old Grandson started school today, pleased to say he enjoyed it.

I was a TA for thirty years. It was just as bad in the 70's as it is now. The only thing was children got more help from sympathetic professional teachers, where now they are just so very young teachers who have very little idea.
I have a friend that still works at the the school as a T A and she is being asked how to spell certain words by teachers.
This school is an inner city school as well.

my children and my grandchildren ALL wore disposable nappies most were toilet trained by 2 ,one wasn't because his working parts didn't work and he needed an operation so he was just over 3 when he was toilet trained .Its not LAZY to use disposables if you're working full time and looking after children and a home ,many of the grans generation didn't work after marriage I know my mother didn't so they had all day to boil nappies to their hearts content.What a shame some of you dont see the pressures young families are under and just constantly criticise them .Its a different world from 1947 or whenever you had your children ...and a damn sight better in many ways...rose tinted glasses have a lot to answer for

The argument for sending children to school at 4 is a double-edged sword. In Germany children don't start school until they're 7 yet the overall results are no worse than British children's results aged 11. However, the standard of living in Germany is higher than here and if children didn't go to school at 4 there'd be huge outcries about the need for child care via extended nursery and pre-school. Personally, I think a child aged 4 can cope with school and is certainly ready for some enhanced intellectual stimulation, but forced writing at that age is a recipe for disaster. On the subject of children not being ready because they are still not toilet trained, that's down to lazy parents and disposable nappies - with the disposable nappies being an indication of lazy parents - I know there'll be lots of grannies on here who say 'ah but, my grandchildren have been in disposables and my daughter or dil isn't lazy, but think about it ... towelling nappies even with a liner let the baby/child know when it's wet and disposable nappies don't. If a toddler is able to pull up its pants and have a wee without feeling any discomfort where's the incentive to go to the toilet - there's research to back this up - babies who wear towelling nappies are toilet-trained earlier than those who wear huggies (or equivalent) and certainly go to school able to take themselves to the toilet. More to the point, all the disposables are full of chemicals whereas towelling nappies can be organic. I do think it's lazy of modern mums to opt for disposable nappies from the word go - all it takes is a moment's thought to consider how hard it will be to get baby/toddler out of this habit when the time comes for toilet training. And the trend is there, more children at 4/5 can't manage the toilet at school.

I used to be a playgroup leader and all the children knew how to use a toilet when they started at three. It is unusual for a child not to go to playgoups as thy are now given free places a couple of times a week. They would have plenty of contact with books.

I think we start children at school too young. Other countries go for 6, and their children aren't behind our early starters. One GS started at just 4 because of where his birthday fell. He started part time, and actually he coped; but he is a bright, eloquent child. However when they start so young you feel you've lost some of their childhood. No wonderful walks in the countryside looking at nature etc., going swimming.... As for homework..and SATS don't get me started on that one!

Surely children from
Poorer backgrounds will still be sent to nursery where the places are free? They will be given books there and learn to go to the toilet by themselves.
I agree that 4 is too young for some children. My gd just missed this years intake and though she is bright enough she is not emotionally ready for school.

Luckygirl, I did not mean to imply that you could not understand the post - I took your very good point that the list was overlong and not user - friendly; it was good exercise for my brain to see how to simplify it!

We do expect children to start school 'very young' and pressures to meet later targets means that formal learning is being introduced ever earlier. However, the people I have worked with who lead Foundation Stage have all been passionate and skilled about encouraging children to learn through play. What they are encountering are children who cannot even play!

Thanks for the info Candelle, I will be writing.

There are many, many reasons why families do not thrive - poverty is only one of them. I set up a parent and toddler group for a community 21 years ago. It was in an old tin hut on an estate where many families lived on benefits and as a nearly free service, - we charged 50p a week, but with free drinks and biscuits all round, I thought we would be inundated with young mums 'in need'.

After a few weeks of no-one at all turning up and a bit more publicity, it was kick-started by the arrival of 4 mums with babes in arms who had all driven across town to get there. They all came from 'the posh part', but were all very isolated and lonely as husbands were away working in London and did long commute hours. From there membership grew and the group still thrives today, but we never did see much of the families 'in need' that I had hoped we could outreach to, even though health visitors promoted the group to every new mum.

If, from birth, we cannot get people to come to such services, we have to think of other ways to support them for the sake of the whole family. I think a 1:1 befriending approach is probably the way forward. I have done this on a voluntary basis. Sometimes it can be disheartening / worrying to see so much need - beyond what many would think of - sometimes, you know you have done something worthwhile.

Non English children usually catch up exceedingly quickly and the parents are usually very supportive and grateful for the education

I heartily echo Imperfect27's post.

Many baby buggies face away from the mother, so there is little interaction when they are out walking.

Additionally, I believe the mobile 'phone has culled much mother/child communication: many mothers are looking at their 'phones whilst pushing a child on a swing, for example.

I realise it is easy to say that 'in my day' was better but I truly think it was! My poor children sat in a big pram (as when they were first born, I did not (OK, my husband may say 'still cannot') drive. I had to walk everywhere and my poor children were chatted at every step of the way as I pointed out pussy cats, house numbers, trees, changing cloud formations etc., whatever I could see - and they looked, listened and learned plus we had a great relationship.

Has the car/forward-facing buggy/mobile 'phone changed all of this? I think they have. It is no wonder that some children are lacking the necessary skills when starting school.

In poorer areas, the Sure Start scheme sounded a wonderful idea and I think it is a shame that funding for this has been curtailed to a fair degree. We have to start somewhere to tackle the cycle of poverty (and yes, mobile 'phone and forward-facing buggies are ubiquitous in all sections of society) and this type of scheme is a beginning.

and.......message to Jaycee5 - act of vandalism to dismantle Sure Start - couldn't agree with you more!

Imperfect27, andanyone else interested, the email address I used was:
[email protected] If anyone has a better one, let me know!

radicalnan, I do understand what you are saying and sympathise with a lot of it - but sometimes it is not laziness or lack of money which make it difficult for young parents to cope. I worked as a housing officer in very deprived areas at one time and saw single mothers isolated without any family to help;or wives deserted by their husbands suddenly left to manage everything after aforementioned husband had cleaned out the bank account and disappeared. One husband I never met was a gambler in well paid work, who had never claimed benefits, but whose family were hungry and cold because he was paid on Friday and all his earnings were gone by Sunday.All this sort of thing can cause clinical depression - even if it does not lead to dependency on drink or drugs - and it is this illness a lot of the time that results in children neglected, bills left unpaid, and if not addressed leads to eviction and homelessness. And of course there are those trying to cope with intimidating or coercive relationships, if not actual violence. In such circumstances children do not get the right sort of attention.

re looking at books.
In my working days the parents of most of the children referred were unable to read.
I hope that reason can't be given now.
ps if I'm around next year I would like to take part in the scheme mentioned by Cassandra, but only with language stimulation and books.

This is what Sure Start was set up to address and it was working.
Dismantling it was an act of vandalism.

I think 4 yrs old is too young for children to start school. A whole year, starting at age 5 gives children all the extra time necessary to learn more of the essentials skills needed for them to cope. Back in the day 5 was the starting age for proper school and anything before that would have been nursery classes. Some children are more ready than others but you will always have a mixture of quick learners, slower learners, some with far more confidence than others. Everything seems rushed nowadays. I believe in some of the Scandinavian countries children don,t start school there until around the age of seven. While I think that is too late, four is too soon.

So obviously all of us parents are rubbish now maybe the grandparent generation needs to remember they raised this generation of parents. I for one am very aware of my responsibilities.

The reason that children are "unready" for school is simply because school starts too early for many children, and it is in the nature of many children that they should reach these goals later.

I agree with Iams's comments about family support centres; they were invaluable for helping parents who were struggling with their role - they received support in the form of friendships and contact with other parents; and good parenting was modelled for them by the staff.