Children unready for school - what can we do?

I feel myself getting angry about this. If the initial post is suggesting more money is put into it, I disagree. In some areas of life, I think we've lost the plot. I worked in a primary school for many years and I could see this coming. It's nothing to do with poverty, and much to do with investment of time, love and attention by the parents. Simple things like eating properly, using the toilet, dressing, are considered by many to be not worth focusing on. Rather high days and holidays, celebrities, fashion, technology, are...even when we're talking about young children. As in other areas of life, we've lost the ability to look at basic values and skills and intellectualised and glamourised key issues. No value is given to the simple things of life.. I don't think all parents are like this but when it's on the increase, I think schools, nurseries etc.need to flag it,up as a huge thing that needs addressing(by the parents not the schools).

When my daughter went to play school, it was on the condition that she was toilet trained, as were all the other children. It was a great incentive!

Home Start, on the other hand, is a volunteer led support for parents who request help. Often manned by grandparents!
For example a family new to the area might want advice on settling in and finding community groups. A family with a special need child might want emotional support. A family with triplets might need practical and emotional support. The volunteers receive quite a lot of training.
They have to raise money in the community and apply for grants and lottery money to keep going.
They aren't in every area of the country, but people (such as grans) can set one up in their area. A friend and I did look into setting a HomeStart group up in our area, but our own family childcare issues took over!

I understand your list Imperfect - I just do not agree that we should be pushing children to achieve these things at some arbitrary age; and that we should single out these things as aims.

Never mind the 'school ready' check list, we need one for parents to ascertain whether they are 'child ready'.

Born after the war we kids had none of the resources they take for granted now, TV, toys, charity shops and yet the parents can't get things sorted. Parents are lazy!!!!

I accept that some kids are emotionally not school ready, my grand daughter is having a struggle to settle in this week, but really, not toilet trained ? People need to apply their parenting skills a good deal more. Not able to hold a book? Books are 20p in charity shops and although libraries have had some cut backs there are still splendid ones out there, mums and toddler groups etc.

We don't need government programes to show people the way, we maged well enough without them up until the laziness became socially accetable.

Children are seen as accessories or an imposition by too many people, they have no rights to be born and then no rights to be properly cared for. How hard is it to toilet train someone, they have years get it done, unless the chid has a disability. Parents ought to be fined if their child is not able to do the basics.

I find the attitudes we have developed towards children very disconcerting, they are just dispensible in every possible way. Don't want to be pregnant, abortion on demand, don't want to look after them, expect the state or a charity to step in, want to keep a career going, put them into a nursery asap.

We value them so little and they are our own children.

We had one toilet at our house shared between 15 people, always spotless it was. Poverty is not an excuse.

I used to take GD1 to a SureStart centre when my DD lived in London in 2011/12. It ran "Play and Stay" sessions plus baby play sessions, a book club and really encouraged parents/careers to interact with the children. It also acted as a source of benefits advice to parents and provided links to employment and training.
It was excellent. I know they have struggled with funding since then.
All these 'school ready' skills should be simple, but especially with younger 'just fours' and stressed parents not always easy to achieve.

Interesting that the first point on that list is

School readiness:
✔ Between the ages of four and five, children should be prepared to be separated from their parent or main carer.

In other words these are aspirations for a child's first year at school as many children start school just after their 4th birthday and all before their 5th.
Many schools struggle because they are also trying to teach literacy and numeracy skills. Ideally perhaps the first year in school should become more play and practical skills orientated. There are many countries where children start formal teaching much later than we do.
One of the problems with nursery schools (and I don't mean this as a criticism) is that they are led on things such as toilet training by parents. If parents are unable or unwilling because of work commitments or other things to start toilet training it never happens.

Luckygirl it is a long, wordy list, but in summary it simply means children should be able to:

* follow simple instructions e.g. sit, listen,
*express their own basic needs: I need ...a drink / the toilet ..
*interact positively with other children and adults - sharing and taking turns
*be interested in and able to talk about the world around them
*sustain enough focus to learn new things
show interest in books

This shouldn't be daunting - it should be the 'norm' - in fact, simply a 'baseline' of expectations which means they are ready to learn. It should be completely shocking that such a growing number of children are not developing these key skills. The government has made noises about the 'ideal' of having a trained literacy practitioner in every nursery, but so much more needs to be done in terms of funding support pre-school.

Sure start, family centres, parenting classes have all been decimated by the austerity agenda. I worked in one former mining area where the money put into early years during the Blair years resulted in a new community school. On the premises were a library, the midwifery and health visiting services, a duty member of staff from the local children's services team and a family centre. The family centre ran all manner of groups for families and their staff also went out to do practical work in families. This could start at 7.30 am or 5 - 7.30 pm to help establish routines, good eating etc. I worked in a Sure Start Family Centre in another very deprived area and its Imo a tragedy to see this important work in the bin.

Imperfect - your list sends shivers down my spine. Why "should" a child be able to do these things? Can we not cut these babes a bit of slack and let them be children?

As pensionpat says, many parents wouldn't be able to understand Imperfect's list of requirements.
From my experience, you could add 'able to use a knife and fork'. If they stay for school dinners.
Another idea would be to raise the age of compulsory schooling to 6 (as in France), but that would be very unpopular. Also would depend on sufficient preschool preparation..

Cassandra count me in! I worked in nurseries and set up / ran mums and toddler groups for two decades before a late career in teaching. We do need to close gaps in practice and understanding between nurseries and schools and young families do need support networks as.

I am currently looking for a change in career and realise I have a lot to bring to the community sector. Maybe this could be my new direction! I would be very interested to know what response you get and would be happy to contact him myself as a.n.other voice. Can you pm me details?

Isn't Home Start, or Sure Start a voluntary thing, non reliant on funding?

If the problem was always there, but has simply increased, this could be down to the larger poulation here now, plus the problem perhaps with young children from virtually non English speaking parents.
In any case, not all four year olds are the same, some are ready, some not.Five seems quite early enough to me, to attend school all day.

I am so pleased that you also think there is scope for input from older people to act as keyworkers in families who could do with extra support in this way, Imperfect27.
However, I do accept that 'recognising families that need this support - and realising that they do' - is a huge part of the problem' .
Absolutely right - as is everything else you have said.

The tick list of school ready skills - would be hugely helpful and give confidence to approved volunteers, if a scheme could be set up.

It appears that communication/sharing (appropriately) of information between schools/nurseries and the children and families departments of social services still has a long way to go. But if measures to make matters better in this regard are not in place, there will be no incentive to improve this, it seems to me - and the social services departments will continue to spend most of their already stretched resources on firefighting i.e. preventing cruelty and serious neglect.

I have emailed Andy Burnham's office to see if he thinks funds could be found to harness the skills and goodwill of older people in this way - if there was such an initial investment, we could probably save the public sector a lot of money, as well as improve children's life chances.Will let you all know if I get a response!

Here is another important factor in early development:

childdevelopment.com.au/areas-of-concern/fine-motor-skills/crossing-the-bodys-midline/

If a child spends a lot of time transported in a baby chair which can double for sleeping at home / in the car etc., or strapped into a pushchair, OR kept relatively static sitting in front of screens, this crossing the midline stage, which is so fundamental to other parts of development can be compromised.

A lot of parents seem to spend vast amounts of time with their faces glued to their phones. If they invested a little more in their children then we may see them having basic skills at an appropriate age.

Yes, M0nica this is an 'old problem'. What is 'new' is the alarming rise in the number of children who are now 'unready.'

pensionpat I agree. I think school soften now put out their own lists that are more parent-friendly, but in line with these government recommendations. However, they are typically given a the pre-school visit in the summer before the child starts. I am sure these targets are also reflected in good practice for nurseries, but I wonder how / when they are first communicated to parents. I also think that many parents are happy to 'hand over' responsibility to nursery, rather than recognising their own role/s.

This problem is as old as the hills. My MiL taught the reception class in a small country town in Buckinghamshire from about 1940 to 1975 and the stories she told about children coming to school unprepared were legion. Her biggest problem, she described, as children coming to school who had been talked at, over and through, but never talked to. These children had no vocabulary had never seen a book or held a pencil, or even sat down for very long.

In their first year she was meant to start them reading, but she said their first two terms had to be spent teaching them to recognise shapes, How can you learn letters if you cannot recognise that a triangle and circle are different, if you do not know what 'under', 'over' and 'between' mean and have never seen a book to understand what print is or held a pencil and drawn. Not to mention those who had never used cutlery or a few who came to school in nappies and not toilet trained.

Imperfect that is an excellent list. I wonder how many parents would be unable to understand all of it, therefore be unable to ensure that their child meets the criteria.

Here is one tick list of school ready skills - they do vary and I have seen some that make reference to simple 'dressing' i.e. managing coat and shoes:

School readiness:
✔ Between the ages of four and five, children should be prepared to be separated from their parent or main carer.

✔ Children should be able to clearly demonstrate their ability to listen and follow age appropriate instructions.

✔ Children should show an interest in a variety of subjects, paying attention to the subject or activity they are taking part in.

✔ Children should have enough of a range of vocabulary and language to express their needs, feelings, thoughts or ideas.

✔ Children should be able to identify themselves by name, age, state factors in their life, name family members etc…

✔ To be able to interact in an age appropriate way with another child or adult.

✔ Children should be able to interact, share and play, taking responsibility for their actions, understanding repercussions for their actions.

✔ Focus on and also show interest in the work they are undertaking.

✔ To be able to observe, notice, discuss and ask questions about their environment and experiences.

✔ To be able to engage with books, have some understanding of words and language.

✔ Respond to boundary setting.

✔ Vocalise their needs such as toileting, thirst, hunger illness etc…

I volunteered as a helper for an adult literacy programme many years ago. The young man I was tutoring had very poor reading skills and a deprived childhood by any standards and was employed in a hostel for teenagers . He once told me that although his background was grim he at least knew what toilet paper was and could use a knife and fork. Many of those teenagers he said had to have it all explained.

Three Septembers ago, in a school that I worked in, 9 out of 18 children were not 'school ready' Seven had toileting problems, two were still regularly soiling themselves. This in itself absorbed one of the two skilled members of staff for many, many hours so other children missed out on the extra support in the classroom that they should have received because teachers and TAs were often caught doing toilet duty. Several could not put on / take off their own coat or shoes. Two sat at the lunch table and just opened their mouths like little birds, waiting to be fed. Not all of these children came from notably socially disadvantaged families. Many of these children also had very poor listening skills. This obviously impacted on the 'ready to go' children too and they often just had to 'get on with it' while the others were given more attention. T

The problem is worsening nationally year on year.

I think parents of pre-school children are now given a list of 'school ready' skills.

There are many reasons for the 'decline' in what comes back to core parenting skills. Families isolated from support networks, single -parents overwhelmed with needing to work long hours, ignorance about how children acquire language (one parent brought in to discuss their child's poor language skills said 'Well 'e don't talk to me so I don't talk to 'i'm.' The rise of screen time for infants, parents on their phones / ipods / gaming instead of interacting with their children. I could go on.

Many moons ago now, I was part of a church initiative that wanted to offer parenting support in our community. We devised a programme of support, a series of talks, accessible timing for parents, an 'army' of mums and grans who would have been willing to get alongside and offer practical, tangible support. We publicised widely. At that time, ONLY the 'middle-England' managing-fine-anyway parents came.

I think there is great scope in communities for older people with time on their hands to be DBS checked and placed as key workers on a voluntary basis to support families in need. It is recognising families that need support - and getting them to realise they do that is a huge part of the problem.

By the time children arrive at school, they can already be disadvantaged beyond repair. The 'hard wiring ' of their brains that enables them to be well co-ordinated, concentrate over sustained periods of time, know how to speak and listen, a so that they can acquire information all takes place before they enter the school gate . We need to get support in from early infancy, but often family needs do not become apparent until the child starts at school.

My DGS started School today
He was 4 in July
I am pleased to report that he had a great first day.
I am sure this was because he had spent several days in the class room with his new teacher prior to the summer holidays.
His teacher and classroom assistant had also visited my daughter and DGS at home.
They introduced themselves and discussed my GS abilities and any concerns my DD had.
Both my daughter and myself were concerned that although he had no problems going to the toilet by himself or putting on shoes (sometimes on wrong feet) or putting on /taking off his coat, can count, knows the days of the week and the seasons etc, he was still too to young to start school.

It was explained that her son could wait and start school when he was 5yrs old,
but the nursery funding of the free 15 hours would no longer be available as he was old enough to be at school.

DD would be put under financial pressure as she is at present paying nursery fees for her younger son.

At the moment the class is split in to 2 groups .
My DGS group is for the summer born babies.

I'm trying to imagine GS2 (started school today!) being unable to talk in complete sentences. But then he and his brother have been talked to endlessly since the day they were born. Yet another thing that some parents obviously need help with. The preschool my GSs went to was very thorough when it came to language development, others may not be as good. If we continue to build a society where parents have neither the money nor the time to bring out the best in their children then money is going to have to be spent on better facilities for them.