De-Classification of Sheltered Housing and removal of Community Alarms

Hello everyone. Westiegran I can imagine what a shock this was to receive such a letter. When are councils/Housing Associations going to treat people like people and not like numbers on a spreadsheet. This begs the question have the council gone through the correct procedures in your case? Doesn't really sound as if they have and might be worth looking into.
At the moment the alarm systems are still in place except for one scheme in the local area. When I queried this, I was told that the whole system had failed so they had to redo the whole scheme.
I have been in touch with a lady in the complaints department who has gone out of her way to answer my many queries, unlike the 'powers that be' who have never even acknowledged the letters I sent to them - not even a compliment slip to say they had received my letter - but this was left to the lady in the complaints department to answer for them.
The situation at the moment is that the alarm system is still working, but residents have been asked not to use it because some residents are paying for a private provider and it would not be 'fair' to them if others used the orange cords. I have still not signed the disclaimer so my orange pull cords are tested each month, along with one other resident who didn't sign the disclaimer.
Apparently, Guinness are reviewing the government guidelines on fire safety etc for the elderly and will consider whether to hold consultations with the tenants (about the removal of the orange pull cords and the communal system) after they have done this. We are still waiting to hear the outcome of their 'considerations'.
I will do my best to keep you updated.
Thank you all for your interest and your comments on this issue. It means I don't feel as if I am alone on this issue.

I am registered disabled and received my pendant alarm through the local council/social work department quite a few years back. They also fitted smoke/ heat alarms. All these are serviced annually.
Out of the blue I received a letter from the council telling me that I now have to pay £3 a week for this service. The letter is worded very badly because at first glance it looks like they are demanding the annual payment upfront. There is nothing on the letter asking if I wished to keep the system or not.I have never, thank God, used the alarm but would hate to be without it.
The £3 a week can be paid in monthly instalments which is something I can afford but the principal of the matter is that they never gave any notice in writing. I dread to think how many elderly or disabled people who received the letter got upset or are doing without in order to pay the full annual amount upfront. ?

Hi everyone

At last I have received a response from my letters to the Executives of the Guinness Partnership. The response has come via the Complaints department, and I have received no direct communication from any of the 5 Executives I wrote to, including the Chief Executive. Apparently, Guinness will now go through the correct procedure and consult all the tenants here at this scheme with regards to the removal of the alarm system. We will wait for the outcome, especially with regard to the part payment of the alarm system within the rent/service charges (as stated in the papers submitted to the Housing Ombudsman by the Guinness Partnership). I will update when this has been completed.

Happy New Year everyone and hope it brings you everything you are hoping for.

Good morning everyone. Just a quick update. I have not yet received a response to my letters to the Executives of the Guinness Partnership, nor have I received an acknowledgement of receipt of these letters except for the reference in the email from the complaints department. I have now sent a letter of complaint by email to the complaints Manager to ask for answers to my questions and to be given an official acknowledgement of receipt of these letters. This was sent on 1st November to the Complaints Manager. I am waiting for a reply. I will continue to update on this issue. Enjoy the weekend.

Hi Everyone
I am still waiting for an official acknowledgement to my letters which were sent to 5 of the executives. However, I received an email from the complaints department which said thank you for your letter to the Executives in response to the Determination of the Housing Ombudsman. The main focus of this email was to confirm details I had been given in an earlier phone call regarding an order made by the Housing Ombudsman.

I have no idea what the Landlord proposes to do next because they have not replied to my letters. Again, watch this space.

Just a quick update. I posted the letters to the Guinness Partnership Executives on 2nd October, but have yet to have an acknowledgement of receipt! I know the letter to the Chief Executive was received because I sent this one by Recorded Delivery. I thought all letters had to be acknowledged within a certain length of time. I will let you know if I receive an acknowledgement.

Many years ago ( he is now 26) my grandson pressed the panic button on our alarm. Two very nice female police officers turned up, delighted at being diverted from hated paperwork and enjoyed a cup of tea and cake.

Thanks ladies.

Oh congrats youngagain you've done so well.
As far as cats setting off alarms my GS aged 2 was visiting my mum the other day and went into the bedroom where he pulled the orange cord. Hurried explanations to the people asking was mum alright. I wonder if there is a code for toddlers as well?

Yes. Well done! You persevered where others wouldn't and it's paid off.

Hi Tweedle and Granny

Thank you both for your comments and to everyone for your support. It has been, and is, much appreciated. Tweedle you made me smile about the cat, and I was once told that the call centre for the alarm actually has a code for 'cat pulled the cord'!
I have just finished a letter to the Guinness Partnership and will update on here when I get a reply. I know that Guinness was previously monitoring this page so I will wait for the reply before updating you, just in case they are still monitoring.

youngagain - a huge well done for persevering with this and getting a ruling from the Housing Ombudsman. Many people have neither the skill nor inclination to challenge wrongdoing, especially in 'David and Goliath' situations where the opponent is a much larger entity, but you did it and it sends a message that people won't always roll over and allow themselves to be exploited or manipulated.

Trisher
My husband persuaded us to have an alarm system fitted after I ended up in A&E following a fall up our garden steps. He was ill in bed so could not help.
Since his death family has nagged me to wear mine all the time, which I do. It is shower proof so gets a wash at least once a day.
I did try leaving it home when I went out but then I kept forgetting to put it back on. Then one day, after I had left it hanging on the door knob to remind me to put it back on, the cats set it off!

Hi Everyone
At last we have a Determination from the Housing Ombudsman. I will copy the wording as it is on the papers, refering to The Guinness Partnership (our Housing Association):

I have determined that there was maladministration by the Association in accordance with paragraph 42 of the Housing Ombudsman Scheme insofar as:

. The Association did not meet its obligation under the Regulatory Standards and under your tenancy agreement to consult with you about the withdrawal of the Community Alarm Service at Dryden Close.

. The Association failed to consult with tenants generally about the withdrawal of the Community Alarm Service across its housing stock in contravention of the Regulatory Standards.

The background papers were also copied to me and it was interesting to see that Guinness had admitted that since 2015 (when the funding was cut to the Guinness Care and Support service) the tenants had been part paying for the alarm system within their rent. I say this because Guinness has stated on more than one occasion during Housing meetings, quite adamantly, that we were not contributing to payment of the alarm system in any way, even though in a letter dated 11th March 2015, they had confirmed that 'the alarm service was at least in part funded by rental payments'.

An Order and Recommendations were made including:
. The Association have been ordered to pay me a sum to reflect its failure to consult about the removal of the community alarm service by 19th October 2017.

(I asked for clarification on this, and was told it was because I had brought the complaint against the Landlord).

. The Association consider drafting a policy and procedure on consultation with tenants
. The Association contact you to establish whether you require assistance in setting up new arrangements for a community alarm service.

The outcome about the removal of the alarm service seems to be that there is a clause in the tenant's Terms and Conditions which allows Guinness to do virtually whatever they want to do!! However, next time they might remember to consult the tenants first before making any decisions!

I still say that Guinness are 'out of order' by even considering the removal of the alarm systems when the properties are Sheltered Housing. Guinness have insisted all along that the bungalows are 'housing for older people', but my tenancy clearly states 'a 1 bedroom Sheltered Bungalow' and there is also other clear proof that we are Sheltered Housing and not housing for older people. Apparently, the bungalows are still being advertised as Sheltered Housing according to one of the tenants. Who is right?

That's where we are at the moment.

However, since Guinness have confirmed that the alarm system is part paid for in the rent, what are Guinness going to do about that if they remove the alarm systems? We are waiting to see.

Hi Tibbytibby

Sorry for the delay in answering but I have been away. No news at the moment, but a number of things are in the pipeline. Sorry I can't explain at the moment but I know that my comments on here are being monitored by someone at Guinness and I don't want to say too much. We are all waiting here for news from the Ombudsman and that will determine where we go next.

I will update you all when I hear anything. Fingers crossed. Thanks for your support everyone.

Hello Youngagain

Any news on the Housing Ombudman?

Hi Luckygirl. Guinness have given a 28 day notice to the 2 of us who refuse to sign the papers - 28 day notice which ended on 22nd of May, to say that they will remove the alarm systems whether we sign the papers or not! I am trying to get more widespread publicity and also trying to find out if the Guinness tenants in other areas of England are refusing to sign. I have told Guinness - with respect, if you want to remove the alarm system in my home you will need to get a court order and please inform me of the date and time so I can put my case forward. I have no problem with Guinness entering my home, but I do not agree with them removing the alarm system. I have not heard anything yet, but will keep updating this site as the case progresses. Also waiting for the ruling from the Housing Ombudsman.

I do not think that anyone should sign this disclaimer - what can they do about it if your do not?

Publicity sounds a good idea.

A quick update. Our local paper, The News, ran our story last Tuesday, 23rd May, and also the Guinness Trust gave them a statement which was also printed. Again, Guinness says they have held consultation meetings with the tenants. Our meeting was on January 11th 2017 and we were told, and given letters confirming this, that Guinness would be removing the alarm systems. Was this their idea of consultation with its' tenants? In December 2016 The Guinness trust sent an email to the Head of Housing at our local council stating that they intended to remove the alarm systems. (I have proof of this). So, the decision having already been made well before telling us at the housing meeting, how can they now say that 'consultation meetings with residents took place'? Sorry Guinness, but this is just another untrue statement from you. I will keep you updated.

Hello everyone. Having been told that the Guinness Trust will suspend all works until the Housing Ombudsman has made its' ruling, we all expected to hear nothing more until this ruling was made.
Well, this evening one of the housing officers delivered a letter by hand to me and one other tenant (a letter from the Regional Manager) - the only 2 who have refused to sign anything. The letter stated that:
'This letter is final confirmation that the alarm system will be withdrawn from "xxxxxxxx" after 22nd May 2017 and we are giving you 28 days notice of this.'
Seems that you cannot trust what Guinness says to you regarding suspending its' works until the ombudsman has made its' ruling. So what's new!!
I told the housing officer that if Guinness wish to enter my property to remove the alarm system then they will need to get a court order and please let me know the date so I can be there with as much media attention as I can muster. I am so angry, but need to calm down to proceed.
I have since found out that there are tenants in other schemes who are just as upset at the changes as we are.
I have contacted the lady from the Royal British Legion again so I am hoping she will be able to give us the name of the person she spoke to at Guinness so we can ask him/her why they haven't passed their decision on to their staff?
As usual, I will keep you updated. Have a great weekend.

Hi Everyone. It would appear that Guinness has suspended any works at the moment, thanks to the intervention of the Senior Independent Living Advisor from the Royal British Legion. However, this does not seem to have been passed down to the staff! Independent providers are still having their equipment installed for individuals, but these might have been ordered before works were suspended. I have had no further communication from anyone at Guinness and we are all waiting to see what the ruling is from the Housing Ombudsman. I will keep you informed as to any further developments.

Thanks Trisher. Will do.

Keep going youngagain it sounds as if they are getting worried. Just as an aside when I went to see my mum yesterday they had just re-installed the orange cords in her flat and were working n the rest of the building
The experiment with modern technology is over!!

Hi. Thank you very much for your advice. I have refused to meet with anyone and have said they should speak to the other residents as well as me at the coffee morning. It was actually a bit surprising that this particular housing officer was rather persisitent in wanting a meeting with me along with this other Guinness representative, but I am thinking it was perhaps a request from higher up and he was the one to convey the request.
The usual practice has been for the housing officers to visit the residents in pairs, but I know that there have been instances here where the tenants have no idea what they are signing and it hasn't been explained to them what the consequences are of signing the papers. I know that the housing officer who phoned me has been very thorough in his explanation to tenants, but not all have been so conscientious.
I agree with you about the worry and fear that the elderly have when it comes to their homes and I think this has been one of the areas that has made me so determined to carry on this complaint. The removal of Sheltered Housing status is a big worry to the elderly, and even though Guinness say that we are still Sheltered Housing in their post, this is not what they have written or stated in meetings with the residents.
I have recorded most of the meetings with any representatives from Guinness and have asked, while recording (so that their permission is on record), for their permission to record conversations or meetings and have been given permission so far. This is how I have a record of what has been said about de-classifying Sheltered Housing and the alarm cords.
I was going to phone our local paper today but was rather busy so I am doing this tomorrow.
I really appreciate your comments and support, so thank you, and I will keep updating any further developments.

No way see them alone. There lies threats and coercion. If they persist in a meeting with just you make sure you have a legal representative/journalist/official type person (even the vicar) there too as witness to what is said because I bet there'll be more than one person turn up to see you. I believe you can record a meeting too provided you tell them you are doing so.

If the housing officer has already been singling off the other tenants it may be useful to see if he visited alone. I bet most agreed with whatever he said so as not to antagonise. Elderly single people feel very vulnerable and often fear loosing their homes if they complain.