Everything is going up except our income.

My parents felt money discussions rude, there you go.

We agree on income tax on earnings, there you go again.

Savings? Income tax on the pitiful earnings on savings, sure.

Pensions? Income tax would be fine, some would disagree.

Fun as this chatter is, I have to make tea snacks, I have no more questions.

I just used the "million pound" as a starting point Riverwalk we have no million pound homes in our borough.

Grossly unfair though.

Meant to add. National Insurance to be paid by everyone even after "retirement" (whatever that is?). Based on income of course.

Income Tax is paid on pensions so why shouldn't National Insurance contributions continue to be paid after stopping work. After all pensioners are still using the services funded by National Insurance. Those on the lowest incomes would be exempt.

Glad someone agrees with me gretel

Gillybob Lurpak should be thanking you! I've decided I'm going to try their butter, to find out for myself if there's a difference.

Just incase anyone from Lurpak does happen to read this thread.

You can pay me in butter (worth more than hard cash these days anyway).

There's no going back mind you SueDonim be warned.

Now what else could I do with a cupboard full of?

Ariel liquid.... I swear by it....have you seen the price lately....worth it though, as its amazing....

I don't understand the enthusiasm for Lurpak. Used to have to buy it when living in the Gulf, when little else was available, but never thought it all that wonderful.
I always buy British butter. We should support our own farmers - I don't know why so many people don't.
I'd better not get started on the habit of buying out of season, imported veg all year round.
Quite apart from anything else, local, in season veg are nearly always cheaper.

I am afraid to say I don't like Lurpark. I love Anchor butter, but it is getting difficult to find.

Pensioners should pay NI, unless on a low income.

Councils are in a very tight situation - Central government has cut funding by 20-25% since 2010 - yet councils are required to provide srvices. Council tax is based is based on the overall budget and areas with high needs will often have higher taxes.

For example Kensington and Chelsea may not have such high percentages requiring funding such as free school meals and more self funding that reduces means tested services such as social care, care home funding etc

Also the cost of Brexit will have to be paid for - one of the big reasons the government needs to cut spending
- the drop in the pound makes imported goods expensive
- trade deals will have to be paid for - it will not be free to trade with Europe
- New agencies to be created if Britain is going to continue with agricultural subsidies and medical research etc plus needing to replace passports and driving licences etc
- the sheer bureaucracy costs billions and billions of the negotiations and then the review of every single law and rule that has been adopted from the EU - for example human rights and employment rights

Well, they need to put up income tax then - and make sure that no-one eligible to pay tax dodges it.

Norah Wed 22-Mar-17 15:07:36
You seem to have a rather distorted view of both our income tax and the fairness of Council tax Norah. How do you know you would pay less if we had a local income tax instead of Council Tax?

As for our income tax system being fair, surely fair would be one that gently steps up with income level while ours is strangely spiked with odd drops between levels.

I believe one of the greatest arguments for a local income tax rather than Council Tax is that is must me one of the greatest disincentives for those wishing to work or work more hours. Even if you will get Council Tax benefit you would still look at the whole amount and it would be very daunting to think you will be earning to slowly pay this until you are paying it all - not necessarily logical I know but scarcity (of both money and security) go hand in hand with fear and fear stunts growth - even into work.

If you wish to raise a tax against the capital value of houses - and how silly to think everyone could just move to a smaller cheaper one - then look at the capital taxes and see how houses fit in to this. Generally you don't pay them until you dispose of the capital goods although you may be charged annually on an increase (as on interest paid on savings). I can see no reason for a property tax to pay for local amenities.

Personally think the poll tax to be fairest. All adults paying into the system must surely be fair. Where I live there are many detached houses that have been extended to be double and triple their original size, older ones are as big as nursing homes. Occupied by extended families and their council tax banding stays at the level it was before the extensions. Is that fair?

The poll tax probably is the fairest system - but the furore and hysteria whipped up when it was suggested means that it can never be used. Too many people would loose out who don't pay any tax now (me for one!!)

The poll tax was grossly unfair - but then so is some people view of how society should be structured. If you are saying you are just charging everyone for all the services people will start to decide which ones they want. I don't fancy living next to someone who decides they can't afford to have their bins emptied. If you want a community then you need progressive taxes. If you do not have the income to pay or are exempt for some other reason what would be the point in trying to make you do so NFK, you would just beggar people who would then loose the roof over their head - how is that 'fair'? The reason there was such an outcry is that it wasn't what most people considered to be 'fair' even if you can't see it.

I think a Poll tax is unfair, wasn't fair before and won't happen (I hope). My preference remains income tax applied fairly. I don't think council tax is necessarily fair and it is surely regressive, my opinion.

Council tax is and always has been an unfair and regressive tax. Income tax is better but needs to be simplified so that it rises smoothly with income, taking an ever larger percentage from higher incomes. The big missing piece of country's income is corporation tax. It is disproportionately low and,because of the weakness of international tax law, the UK does not collect enough from multinationals, who seem to take the attitude that is optional, because they can arrange their affairs so as to pay little or nothing if they like. Don't know what all this says about the price of Lurpak but would agree that the actual cost of living is rising faster than either CPI or RPI indicates. So, yes, we are being conned.

Our council tax has gone up by 5% this year(approx), if it means the council can afford to keep services going then I accept that is the way it has to be. Two of us live in quite a large- not huge 3 bed bungalow, rated F and our bill is £2354.86. One of the dozen street lights in the village is outside our house so , I guess, we are getting value for money!
I buy English butter (who wouldn't support our own farmers? ) and haven't noticed a price hike, other than the shenanigans the retailers go through to pursuade us we are getting a bargain. My English yoghurt has gone up tho' by 25p. It's been £2.50 forever!

A properly organised poll tax - that is every individual meeting criteria to pay according to their ability would be fairer than income, council and NI tax I think. Everything could be put in one place. It would be easier to understand and manage. I don't have to pay tax. But I should. (Don't tell anyone will you.) I don't pay prescription charges. But I should. I do pay towards council tax as I half own our house. But we downsized. If my DH deceases before me I may have to pay a very little income tax, but not in all honesty enough compared with what our wage earning DC have to fork out. They pay too much, as we did at their age, at a time when they're struggling to bring up families. It's too lopsided.

I agree that since NI has been sort of absorbed into the general tax pot everyone should pay. Yes, we've contributed all our lives, but it was kept completely separate then I believe. Now it should cease to be and be included in central government income tax. The system is too unwieldy and desperately needs simplifying.

( We use Yeo valley easy spread butter as it only has olive oil added to help with spreading and not rape or (worse) palm oil and other stuff. ). Favourite butter for taste is Anchor, but it's not always available - why? I understood it was made in the UK now, but that may have been False News.

I think many of us are in agreement that the current system of calculating taxes are rather unfair and as usual geared to the far better off in society . Council tax levels are way out considering current values and of course there will be losers.

The poll tax will never come back after the last disaster will it? Effectively you could have a family of 4 people living in a small terrace worth around £80,000 paying more between them than a couple living in a multi million pounds mansion and that can't be fair either.

I agree that we need to look at these big organizations who have sweetheart deals with the tax man. Those footballers, pop stars , TV personalities etc. who take part in tax avoidance schemes. Massive corporations with their main offices offshore etc.

Anyway I made a giant pan of "grandma Gillybob's famous bolognese" last night. (The real stuff with a carrot and celery base not the rubbish out of a jar) I tend to make it in huge batches of about 10-12 good portions. Once word gets around the family, the portions will disappear like magic out of my freezer.

I worked out the cost per portion is only around 70p. So very good value.

That's the answer Gilly on several fronts; cooking from scratch, having a couple of cheap but nutritious meals per week, pad them out with vegetables or better still have a couple of veggie meals a week.

It's easy to make the pennies go further that way. I mean how cheap is liver and onions?

Doesn't help though when some are playing the system by now paying their taxes, and cheating.

Not paying taxes

No, the poll tax wasn't thought through enough. I think, as usual, the civil servants were still in the middle of working out all the connotations when the politicians decided to launch it. Probably to cover up some disaster! If there hadn't been so much hysteria whipped up it would probably have been possible to tweet the system as anomalies came to light. But we'll never know. We'll be stuck with what we have for another couple of generations until its history.