Globalization

I wonder about the idea of globalisation starting with the empire builders from 15th Century onwards. Was the Roman Empire an example (probably not the first) of a form of globalisation of the world as it was known at the time? I am not sure when international trade began but I imagine it began with very early civilisations.

I would agree that the speed with which information (and non-information) travels today is an important change. The relative ease of travel and transportation is another factor which facilitates the movement of goods and people; and there are many more people in the world than there were, even 125 years ago.

Major international companies have major influence now, directly and through political power; but this is not new. The East India Company is just one example of one from 1600 or so.

I am not sure whether the actions of voters in one country are influenced directly by the voting behaviour in another; but where both electorates are influenced the same global influences, they might move in the same general direction.

Certain sharing ideas and culture varian

Surely over the last twenty years the internet has made us more one interconnected world and will inevitably hasten globalisation?

Right wing on the ascendency.

And the result is Trump and right -wing leaders leading the way.

And for the anti-Trump marching!

daph yes! The spread of ideas and values. I think what is really interesting that we have been brought up with Greek and enlightenment philosophers, but now globalisation (your spelling) is making us aware of Indian and Chinese philosophy. The sum of human thought is there for the reading!! Superb.

I'm not sure I understand entirely what you're getting at here, Izabella.

Taking Bentham's most well-known axiom that happiness "is the greatest happiness of the greatest number that is the measure of right and wrong", I suspect that's all that can be expected.

It's the basis of democracy, which has, however, been defined as a tyranny, because it discriminates against minorities.

Bentham was amazingly 'modern' in his thinking, but of course, died in the mid nineteenth century, so didn't live to see unintended consequences of his thinking.

At the time, the British Empire controlled much of the world - and the banana plantations. Therefore, it would have been easier to control working conditions than it is now, although governments weren't keen on intervening at that level. The government could have passed a law protecting the rights of banana pickers or it could have put moral pressure on the owners and buyers and allowed supply and demand to take its toll.

It was moral pressure which eventually led to the abolition of the slave trade in law, although the slave owners had to be compensated generously.

Capitalism and markets are now a fact of life, but they depend on freedom of movement - for all the factors of production, which include humans, to be fully efficient. I don't think anybody has fully grasped that humans like being treated as individuals and not just as a factor of production.

Robert Owen, the utopian socialist, was one of Bentham's students. I expect most people know about the New Lanark mill, which was designed to offer the workers humane working conditions. However, even they were quite strictly regulated and workers had to follow what Owen thought was a clean way of living.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on. One of the effects of globalisation has been the rapid spread of ideas. Bentham and Owen contributed to nineteenth century reforms for workers, but the motivation for their philanthropism has been questioned. By producing healthier and happier workers, they also produced more efficient workers, who helped create the great wealth of the British Empire to the detriment of workers in other countries.

We have a moot hall nearby but I won't make a point about it!! ?
So does globalisation increase disparity within nations? For instance does buying fair trade coffee discriminate against the farmers who are not part of the scheme or is it misplaced social engineering for a more level playing field in commercial terms? Is international trade a Benthamite principal discriminating against individuals?

Just to get us back on track!

mcem

✔️

I believe it is indeed short for "I hear, I hear!"

Hear hear!

(Or is it 'Here here!'?)

Some of still earn money and have investments and charity giving

Perhaps I confused things on the other thread when the term 'mute point' was used - see maw's reference above. I pointed out that if he had made a mute (sic) point then we wouldn't have had to hear his rants (or words to that effect)

Oh I see - I was the same when I was widowed, and had to fill in a few forms for the IR both that year and the next, but haven't had to submit a tax return. They work in mysterious ways...

Tax return - I made the mistake of filling one in for the first time in a while the year after I was widowed, as there were changes to my financial position that year. They have demanded one ever since.

While I was typing that, the source of the mute point has surfaced! Good sleuthing, Maw

Apology accepted and thank you, SAAK. I think we will have to observe Mr T closely in the next few years to see what he achieves and whose lives he improves, or whether he is all mouth and trousers.

Tax return? Why is it that so many GNetters seem to have to do them? Surely they aren't all running businesses or have massive investments...?

Well that has taken up nearly an hour getting mute and moot nicely defined, and I still haven't started my tax return, in spite of getting daily emails from HMRC asking whether I have done it. I'll leave you lot to sort out globalisation.

All words are made up. The origin of language would make a wonderful thread title, but back to globalisation...

PS. I spell 'globalisation' with 's', but that's a moot point!

I did spell it correctly and use it in the correct context (I think!)

Isn't passive-aggressive a contradiction in terms? and out of fashion now?

Was this it?
(On the anti-Trump demonstrations thread)

. stillaliveandkicking Sat 21-Jan-17 20:11:54
A point of what? Im sure he will, he has healthy daughters to help him. The fact that women were used to make such a mute point is beyond comprehension. It would be interesting to know where this actually came from. Women? women that are secure as such? I think not

I also need to apologise to Elgran if I offended. It was not my intention to be rude to you.

Neither do I Elgran, i just know that the definition is of moot or mute

Maybe it was you then, Jalima