In retrospect, was the NHS such a good idea?

Too many tourists not paying for care, even when they have insurance and want to pay.

Far too much rubbish being done, tattoo removals and boob jobs and repairs of botched private surgery, lots of worthless procedures wasting money because the dept exists.

Sports injuries, alcohol injuries, drug injuries, sexually transmitted diseases and terminations of pregnancies all could be charged for, no reason why not. People could just be billed, look at the way car clamping works, they get the money out of people.

My mother told me when I was a kid that 'people come here from all over the world to have their babies because it is free', well it isn't free, we have to pay for it.

I worked in PALS and saw tourists have care and offer us their insurance details, and no one wanted to deal with it.

A&E at the weekend is full of drunks..........make them pay up, and we have the means to charge people for hoax calls £200 as a starting price would cut that back a bit.

It is a health service not a rescue service for idiots abusing the system and themselves.


We are far too squemish about

Of course we still need the NHS what we do want is for politicians to leave the running of the NHS to the medical profession instead of usng it as a political football. What we do need to address is the demands of some members of the public. My daughter's friend who is a doctor recently had held a clinic where out of 20 patients 4 patients who had made appointments that day (one an hour earlier) didn't arrived. Out of the rest there were a number who had already been to see the doctor and been told they had a virus were demanding antibiotics. I worked in the NHS before retiring and found many patients who just didn't turn up for their appointments who would then ring up and demand another one. When asked why they hadn't attended the previous appointment reasons given were, overslept, inconvenient,forgot etc etc.

Beam
take it you are not entirely serious.

Very interesting pen50.

I agree with those of you who say something needs to be done. My husband and me have worked all our lIves so have paid as they say into the pot. I have an illness called sarcoid which I have many medications all of which I have paid for then 7 years ago I had a small stroke so more medications I thought that as a stroke was known my medications would then be free but no we still paid. I am now sixty so they are now free I don't waste them or stock pile them. But I do agree these people that don't turn up to appointments and abuse the system should be sorted charging to see a Dr I don't agree with you never see the same one these days so don't build up a relationship which I think is important. Especially when you have an illness you don't see a lot of.

I've been doing a lot of reading around the subject recently and have been convinced that the NHS is actually positively harmful to our national welfare. Of course, health are is an essential, but so is food, and we don't have 90% of groceries in this country provided through a system of state administered foodbanks where anyone who thinks they need food turns up and is then given the amount of food an administrator assesses them to require.

I would prefer to see the actual provision of health are devolved from the state to a mixture of private, cooperative, and charitable institutions. The state might then offer a basic insurance, cover for rare and lifelong conditions, plus maybe a loan system like student loans for other stuff; or of course individuals could take out top-up insurance or pay out of savings. I'm sure the benefits system (which also needs to be thoroughly reformed, but that is a different matter) could provide a safety net to those at the bottom of the pile.

I can thoroughly recommend a couple of books by James Bartholomew - The Welfare State We're In, and The Welfare State of Nations - if you want to do some thinking outside the box.

People don't seem to realise that if you leave small ailments alone, the body will heal itself. I can't stand the people who are running to the Surgery with coughs, colds, pulled muscles et al.

An 83 yr. old friend loves going to the Docs.. She said it is the only time she feels a sense of importance. See what I mean.

Although not condoning Dr. Shipton, I could see where he was coming from.

Was the NHS a good idea? Well, my grandmother watched one of her children die in 1919 from what she thought was Spanish flu but turned out to be 'lightning pneumonia' (whatever that was). She ended up having to defend herself at the inquest because she'd given him the same medicine she'd given her other 10 children, not being able to afford another doctor visit. The inquest ended with the coroner praising her for being such a good mother, btw. I still have the newspaper report & it still makes me cry.

My dad, as a skint young husband & father, used to buy my grandmother her asthma medicine because she couldn't afford to pay for it herself. She eventually died in his arms from a particularly bad attack.

So yes, on balance [sarcasm] I'd say the NHS was a very good thing indeed. And this government are out to destroy it because the elite have shares in private health companies. It is not 'free' - it is ours, paid for through our taxes. Although there may be a tiny minority who abuse it, it is the consistent underfunding of the NHS that is at the root of the problem. The Labour party held an NHS day of action on Saturday, & people were reporting back that many conservative voters were signing the petitions because ordinary people from all political persuasions value the NHS. It's the elite you have to watch out for, & they are stealing it from under our noses, selling off swathes of it to the likes of Branson whilst distracting us with non stories about showing your passport to get treatment, which will never happen.

I will fight for the NHS to my last breath.

I wonder what Galen or any of our other ex-docs would reply to being "just a GP". A GP is the first port of call for patients, and needs to know about ALL medical matters so as to diagnose. Knowing WHEN to refer someone to a consultant, and which speciality consultant is needed is part of the job. General medicine is itself a speciality.

Lillie.
You sound like Lady Bracknall!

Anything "seen" as free is always abused. Didn't the RSN suggest a £5 visiting fee a little while ago?

Just as another point any emergency whilst having private procedures are sent to NHS as private companies do not have the resources as they won't pay for them.

Please don't make this a thread about another thread or I will have to tell miss Cari!

Yes, yes, yes. Any mess that the NHS is struggling with is due to massive underspending by the government and privatisation by the back door...therefore funds go to shareholders rather than back to replenish existing organisation. My partner has been a nurse for over 35 years and at the end of a distinguished career is being treated disgustingly, as her part of the NHS is being taken over by social services. Older relatives are receiving fantastic services from practitioners, who have to work in the most atrocious of accommodation whilst buildings are being sold to developers for luxury flats.

a handbag?

Maybe we should NOT copy Cuba djen for anything at all. and if you and trisher continue 'bigging up' Cuba as you are doing ( on the Castro thread) you will have the whole of Gransnet rushing to live there ( although they wouldn't be living there for long.)

Agree with Trisher - no one needs a £500 handbag either etc

Lillie even very experienced and well qualified GPs fail to spot things sometimes, what sort of a mess would result if they only had 3 years training I can't imagine.

I have answered my own question, by a bit of Googling! It would seem that private medicine practiced in NHS facilities is subject to a number of regulations and fees. These seem to be set by individual health trusts. I couldn't find out any hard facts on the amount of money contributed to each trust. Maybe it's not enough?

janeainsworth I think I was trying to suggest a 3 year very basic general training for medical students who know they just want to be GPs and diagnose minor ailments on a daily basis. This would be instead of their degrees. You are right however to say that serious illnesses need to be diagnosed properly, so maybe there could be one senior GP per practice who deals with the more sinister looking cases and decides whether to refer onwards.
The problem with that is that it is asking students to decide very early on which medical path they want to follow, and also I doubt whether the minor GPs would be happy with the lower salary they would automatically receive.

I agree about stoping privatisation because these companies care more about profit but apart from that what can we do? What would people find fair and acceptable? Would having some link to the level of tax you pay be acceptable or sufficient - maybe we could all be expected to pay a certain amount towards treatment and those who are poorer for whatever reason be exempt - I have no idea how it works - but I believe that people receiving any benefits are able to have free dental care and also some aspects of eye care. Could this not be expanded?

Come on ladies what other ideas could we think about - we have so much experience between us we can jointly see the flaws and good points about all sorts of ideas.

If charging people 5p for a plastic bag has reduced bag numbers by 80% then charging a nominal sum to visit a doctor might also deter people for visiting a doctor for trivial reasons.

Sorry, off.

My grandfather died in 1939 because they could not afford medication for him. That's when my mother started her nurse training.
Nobody in my family has died since because of lack of medication.

The NHS is affordable. We should not be talking about £10 being a nominal fee to pay to see a GP.
The government does not wish to prioritise the NHS, that's all.

Cuba has a better health service, free at the point of use, and a healthier and longer living population than the UK. Maybe we should copy Cuba now, rather than the USA.

Of to the GPs now.

Question : Do Consultants pay for the use of NHS hospital facilities when they treat private patients?

I have no idea, maybe someone can enlighten me.