In retrospect, was the NHS such a good idea?

I know you are right,dj, but I can't see that happening.

Surely, you can agree that the NHS needs some reform to battle wastage of resources and Doctor's time? I have only been hospitalised three time in my life; all ghastly experiences. It started to go downhill when they took the Matrons off the Wards and let relatives wander in and out all day. How can you keep infections down under these circumstances?

I don't want the NHS privatised but I do want to know how much each procedure costs privately compared to the NHS. I don't mean what you are charged privately but what it actually costs because I suspect we could learn something from that. I'd like to see proper ID cards issued; lots of other countries have them and they could be used to gain access to the NHS just like we have to when we want free treatment in Europe.
The other thing that always strikes me is ludicrous is that the NHS often have fixed pathways which mean people have to take a certain route to get treatment even if it takes longer and costs more. It isn't just the NHS that it costs but the patient, their employer and the country. For example, my daughter has to have tests to find out why she keeps collapsing and she is under a London Hospital. The test will mean giving her a large amount of glucose and then seeing if she gets the symptoms. At the same time, there is a concern about being insulin resistant. The test for that is taking a large amount of glucose and taking blood tests before and after. I asked whether they could do both tests at the same time to save having another appointment, another trip to London (which the hospital pay for) and would save them on glucose too. Nope, that is impossible. 2 different departments, 2 cost centres, yada, yada, yada. I suspect there are lots of incidences of this and it all adds up.
To the person who said cosmetic surgery shouldn't be done on the NHS except in the case of accidents, what about those who are born with conditions which might necessitate them to have surgery, e.g., hare lip, bone growth deformities etc. Gastric bands can stave off diabetes, liver disease and all sorts of lengthy illnesses which cost the NHS a fortune.

I was in hospital the weekend they changed the system in 2013. I was too ill to ask much about it - aortic dissection - but the staff did not seem to know what was happening apart from new logos and badges. The nurses I asked said "What reorganisation?"
It's going to be the same this time.

This might get us some money back.

www.wemove.eu/sites/all/modules/civicrm/extern/url.php?u=16290&qid=18420423

My daughter has MS and I am very grateful for the NHS. I do think some people abuse it, but for those with chronic illnesses it is a lifeline.
We were at A and E recently and there were two children running around noisily.It turned out they were the patients and I must admit I could see what they could have wrong with them which couldn't be dealt with by a GP in the morning.

I think too many think the NHS should cover more than health, they book appointments for minor ailments, cosmetic procedures, fertility treatments etc. That's not "health", if you make an appointment and don't go then you should be charged.
Secondly ditch whole layers of expensive administrators and management, it'll save millions and the daft expensive policies they set not accepting return of equipment, medication etc.
Thirdly take the cap off NI I paid the same NI contribution wether I earnt £40k or £150k. I had private insurance for many years but stopped as it got very expensive and I never used it. I can't remember - thank heavens, the last time I went to a doctor.
I'm grateful the NHS is there - I think it was a brilliant concept, still is and want to see it continue and improve but we expect it too cheaply.

What about all of the grand hospitals that have been built on the never-never. The repayments are phenomenal, and all to private businesses, and, sorry to say, as soon as some of them were opened they had to close some of the wards because they couldn't afford them.

It is possible to buy back the PFI. Northumberland did it with Hexham hospital.

Mirandaf55 ,the Scottish government discovered it cost MORE to meanstest than to give all prescriptions free.So meanstesting for the over 60's would be counterproductive

The NHS was a good idea because it established the principle that medical care should not depend upon the ability to pay.

But, that said, at the beginning no-one could have predicted the progress of medical science and the opportunities for treatment (and the vast expense of these) that would arise, and also the rise in life expectancy.

The management structure of the NHS is cumbersome and lacks accountability. It has, like education, been a political football and undergone too many changes. Personally I believe that the introduction of farming out aspects of care to private agencies looks appealing financially, but creates such a degree of disorganisation that it is cunter-productive.

There are some strange anomalies, such as dentistry involving a fee (even on the NHS) but you can wander in to a hearing clinic and walk out with hearing aids for nothing - and get all the batteries and spares free.

We do have to tighten up on the abuse of the NHS by non-residents of the UK and I think that this is planned.

I can absolutely confirm that there are people who abuse the NHS - I have been married to a GP for over 40 years and some of the nonsense he had to deal with beggars belief.

I do not know what the answer is but somehow we need to ensure that the NHS's central principle is not lost. The reason that some other countries have a more efficient service is because it is better funded. We do need to put more money into it - the question is how to do that whilst still hanging on to the basic principle. This may involve a rise in taxes - I would accept that - but is any political party going to bite the bullet on that?

Oh dear "cunter" - sorry!

I can't imagine what Nye Bevan would have thought if He'd known how many thousands of pounds DH's cancer drugs would cost every month! On the other hand I'm damn glad he's been able to have them!

There are already many working people who cannot afford to pay for their prescriptions. I was behind a young man in the chemist who asked the pharmacist which item was the most necessary as he could not afford to pay for 2 items. Charging £10 for for a visit to the GP might mean that someone who REALLY needed to see a doctor would put it off as they could not afford it. Many young people avoid visits to the dentist, optician etc, for the same reasons.

I think we need to tackle the waste within the NHS before anything else. Equipment being given out and never returned, several ambulances picking one or two people up from the same area, cheap items being given out on prescription for free, consultants seeing NHS patients in "private" and back charging the NHS ... Etc.

Also there needs to be a look at the use of bank staff and NHS staff working part time for the NHS and part time private (bank) in the same role.

I agree with Lozzamas about taking the cap off NI contributions.

The reason the NHS doesn't take back items such as crutches is the risk of infection. It costs more to disinfect the items than to supply new.

I'm damn sure I could deep clean and disinfect crutches cheaper than I could buy them.

I was born in 1946 so have always been an NHS user. I remember when I was 18 that the GP (who made house calls after morning surgery then) said Mum should have a house phone as she was a priority case due to a life-threatening illness. He then proceeded to charge £5 (in 1964!) to sign the form to tell the GPO that she was a priority to get a phone. I was livid.

With people living longer and new drugs costing so much, the NHS obviously costs more. I no longer believe that our NHS is the envy of the world, it certainly isn't in most of Europe. BUT it could be again. If we want a good national service we have to be prepared to pay for it. I may be odd but I would not object to paying more tax from my pension if it were ring fenced for the NHS. Not that I'm likely to get the opportunity from this Conservative government that I am convinced wants to totally demolish the NHS.

Re cost savings I think the NHS should refuse to give prescriptions for drugs readily available without prescription (eg paracetomol) from the pharmacist. We should also limit the top price the NHS pays for drugs so that prices become more reasonable - no company would charge prices so high that they can't sell them - or maybe I'm being naive?

Crutches are v cheap to buy, less than £10 a pair ex vat. www.completecareshop.co.uk/mobility-aids/crutches/coopers-fully-adjustable-crutches

As well as cleanliness, (they're full of holes - how would you deep-clean inside?) there's also the problem that you don't know how much stress they've been subjected to - imagine someone falling as a result of a crutch suffering a materials failure.

Definitely not enough

I live in a country where emergency treatment and pregnancy care and childbirth are free but pretty much everything else medical has to be paid for. Introducing a fee for the NHS concerns me because I think it will affect preventative medicine. For example, while there is a free national breast screening programme here, we pay for smear tests – about £25–35, depending on whether they are done by a doctor or practice nurse. This may not seem a large sum of money for something so important, but for families on a tight budget it is something that can easily be crossed off the list.

I also feel concerned about creeping increases. There have been suggestions on this thread that a fee of £10–20 for seeing a GP would not be unreasonable. (We pay about £20 for a GP appointment, plus extra for any blood tests, specialist equipment used, etc.) How long in the UK before the £10 was increased year on year? That's what happened with dental treatment and prescriptions.

I have no axe to grind because even if I returned to the UK (where I still pay both income tax and VAT) I am apparently not allowed NHS treatment for a year.

I don't see why free prescriptions etc need to be means tested. They could be attached to various benefits Eg, in the case of retired people, pension credit.

One of the biggest waste of money projects by N.H.SNUMPTIES managers i ever heard of took place at Frimley Park Hospital, the theatre's and recovery rooms had just been upgraded and some fool with a clipboard spent thousands of £s on art work for the corridor between the two! Did he know the artist..............i wonder

It is estimated that £300 million is wasted each year in unused medication. People simply reordering repeat prescriptions with multiple medicines, some of which they don't need any more.

Think how many hip replacements or nurses that would fund.

The general public have their part to play in reducing unnecessary costs, and that includes missing appointments, wasting GP and A&E time.

I was able to self-refer to a NHS physiotherapist but most people I speak to aren't aware of this. Also I read on GN somewhere that you can self-refer to mental health services. Those are savings on GP visits that ought to be more publicised.

We do pay for the NHS through our taxes. It is not just abused by patients but also the people who run it and governments. If we lose it it will be a total catastrophe for the poor and elderly on basic pensions. I have no answers to the problem. My poorer American friends cannot afford some of the treatments they need because of private health care costs. I hope with all my heart that the NHS is not privatised but I feel that it probably will be due to the enormous costs this country faces as a result of the vote. The day the NHS goes will be a very very sad day.

Icanhandthemback - your different "cost centres" may well be a product of privatisation if you are in England.
It is not obvious which bits of your hospital are being run by Virgin Healthcare or other private provider because they are not obliged to make that obvious to patients. For example your X ray services might be privatised but you have no idea when going for an X Ray.