In retrospect, was the NHS such a good idea?

I was born and brought up in a 3rd world country where medicine was at a premium. we were lucky because my uncle was a Dr. and he was free...
When we lived in Jersey, we paid for our Dr. because although a lot was free, GP fee were means tested. So whenever the children had an ear infection or whatever, i paid for the Dr.and for the prescription. In the late 70s, it was rare that I came out with less than £5 worth.
I believe that the NHS is a very valuable commodity. But... 1.get foreigners to pay for their treatment, if you are ill in France you have to pay, so why not the reverse?
2. be means tested - a lot of people can afford some treatment [GP, minor treatment] but still get it free. or
3. Pay the GP a nominal sum; people value what they have paid for up front more than for free things [and that goes for education too]
4. Encourage people not to expect a prescription of minor ailments.
5. use pharmacists more often.
Job done

To be a GP here there is three years of training AFTER the medical training has been completed.

Yes, the NHS was a wonderful idea and we should do everything we can to support it, instead of running it down. We should ensure that politicians prioritise it, and we should stop the spread of privatisation which will destroy it if allowed to go unchecked. It is a marvellous thing, something we all contribute to and can all use, and we should scorn people like Nigel Farage (and, I suspect, a great many Tory MPs) who would like to see it abolished and replaced with insurance schemes.

How well do they work? Well, my DD moved to the USA two years ago and their experiences with the healthcare system there has been dire. They are fortunate enough to be fairly affluent and have top-of-the-line health insurance through SiL's job but they were surprised to find that you can only go to certain hospitals, doctors and dentists, even if they're nowhere near where you live; that lots of things aren't covered by your insurance; that even when they are covered, you're likely to receive an unexpected bill for several hundred dollars for "extras" that aren't covered; and that people are scared to call an ambulance as it's very expensive and may not be covered by your insurance, as you don't have time to check and find out. They also learned that, whilst wealthy people may scorn Obamacare, for the poorer people it's a godsend. However, there are still plenty of people whose lives have been wrecked by serious illness in the family, when they couldn't afford adequate insurance. There are even people who are now homeless because they have been financially ruined by the costs of treatment for cancer, etc. Not much fun in a state where winter temperatures can fall to -30...

The NHS is, in my opinion, a national treasure and we should do everything we can to protect it. We could think about electing a government with a different approach to our economic problems but that's a long-term plan, as there's no election in sight. In the meantime, we could campaign for the NHS to be the last thing on the list when it comes to making cuts. It's been there for all of us and the chances are that we're going to need it again, for our families but even more for ourselves as we get older. We should give it the support and respect it deserves.

And as for charging for GP visits for minor ailments...£10 is a significant amount for many people, so they just won't go. How many of those "minor ailments" will turn out to be symptoms of serious illnesses, which will then go untreated until they become incurable? For example, there are adverts which urge us to see a doctor if we have a persistent cough, as it could be a sign of lung cancer...A cough is often a "minor ailment" but not always. Lots of people will be unwilling and/or unable to fork out a tenner when they've got a cough and some of them will be really sick. Do we want that to happen?

And whilst I'm in rant mode - I'm on a Facebook group for a health condition, which has lots of US members. If I ever needed reason to be grateful for the NHS, that would be it. I've had free treatment whereas my US sisters have either had to pay thousands for it, or wait months fighting for their insurance to cover it, which often it doesn't. There's a real perception over there that they are steered towards the treatment that makes the most bucks for their surgeons. Whilst we might be steered towards cheaper medication etc, at least we don't have to worry about our NHS surgeons making money from us - they get paid their salaries no matter what treatments they perform.

Thank you daphnedill.

A huge amount of money is wasted in the NHS on inefficiencies in the way they organise things. If it was a private business it would be bankrupt. The out patient appointments and bed booking systems need to be sorted.

Also the "internal market" costs a fortune. Despite 3 costly reorganisations designed to reduce bureaucracy on the commissioning side there is still an army of people working in the back rooms of the NHS "buying" health care from the NHS. Some of them were made redundant at huge cost to the tax payer, then came back 5 minutes later into a similar job to the one they had before.

I think there should be a closer link between National Insurance Payments and receipt of Health care, pensions and benefits, as originally intended. People should get essential benefits from their state insurance contributions. Anything over and above that should be paid for either in full, or by contributing to a more comprehensive insurance package.

For example we all get a state pension, but most of us pay into another pension at the rate we can afford to cover what we think we will need. Why not the same for health care ?

The NHS should provide treatment for all illnesses, accidents and health conditions which can't be helped, but not for things which are a personal choice. Sorry if this is controversial, but things like cosmetic surgery, IVF, gender reassignment. Should these be covered ?

I think the NHS should return to being a clearly defined health service, rather than the huge monstrosity it has become.

Thank you disgruntled. The operation is in March and we are trying not to think too much about the actual operation and focus on getting the best results from it afterwards as it's quite a scary procedure. Raising the money was actually quite uplifting because you find out that there are some really lovely, generous, kind people around!

Actually, TheMaggiejane1, not treating pensioners over 80 would save the NHS billions! I'm not being serious, but a huge percentage (can't remember what) is spent on people in the last few years of their life. It dwarfs the amount on health tourism, boob jobs and prescriptions for parancetamol.

PS. for your granddaughter. I hope the op is a success.

I concur SerendipitySmith. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Oh, Maggie well done on raising that money, but how awful that you had to. It must be a very worrying time for your all. I'm so sorry. What a vile illness.

Yes it was. Quite frankly I'm horrified by some of these comments.

I think we need to start seeing the NHS as a free safety net if you are unlucky enough to get a serious illness. If you need to go to the doctor for 'just a sore throat' or similar you should pay for the appointment and he will advise you which medicines you can buy from the pharmacist. People would soon realise that they might as well get advice from the pharmacist in the first place! Children would obviously be exempt and maybe pensioners over 80 or so.

I certainly don't see the NHS as a sacred cow. My family have just finished raising £50,000 for my six year old granddaughter to have an operation that is not carried out on the NHS even though Great Ormond Street hospital are more than happy to do the operation privately on suitably selected children. The operation is her only chance of walking and cuts down on the pain she will suffer all her life due to cerebral palsy. It makes my blood boil when I hear of people having gastric bands and boob jobs on the NHS.

What about the people as well who are fobbed off by their GP with pain killers and other medication but need to keep going back in order to get a proper diagnosis or referral? It could cost hundreds of pounds just to get near a consultant.

@Royandsyl

I can vouch for you about the question about medical insurance in Germany.

I spent one Summer holiday working in (West) Germany and had a nasty accident. I had blood pouring out of my arm, but they wouldn't even let me in the ambulance until I'd proved I had medical insurance.

Oh, Paddyann Big pharma have a lot to answer for! There was a programme The doctor Who Gave Up Drugs which touched on the bribes handed out; he said that research has shown that people are influenced. A friend of mine used to organise conferences and whenever big pharma were involved they would hand out "gifts" from pens upwards. AGP told a friend of mine that big pharma paid for his daughter's very lavish wedding.

A question for those people who would charge for GP visits...

What about people who are told to make repeat appointments? I don't go my GP very often, apart from attending for diabetic checks, smears and flu jabs.

However, when I do need to go, I am usually told to come back next week and this goes on for a few weeks. I haven't paid for prescriptions for years, but I've been through a period of my life when £10 a week would have been a matter of choosing to eat or see the doctor.

What about people who are worried about a lump or a cough or bleeding? Some people tend to put off seeing a GP anyway, in case they're wasting the doctor's time. I can see some of them might be put off by £10.

They can be, Jane: I've had kidney infections cured by homeopathy.

Is that because homeopathy and acupuncture aren't very effective for spreading infection disgruntled ?

it needs trimmed from the top ,thats where the wastage is,and if it were managed better the funding would strecht much further.The other issue is big pharma,I heard about Phizer(sp) ? recently rebranding a drug and instead of charging the NHS under £2 a pack they now charge £67 ...!!!!THAT shouldn't be tolerated.Finally people need to understand that running to A and E with minor complaints isn't necessary or acceptable .My mother would never have taken us to hospital for silly things ,she would have waited to see how it progressed and then made a GP appointment.So all in all re education is needed

Thanks, Roses it is. I've had it about ten times now and both the homeopath and acupuncturist have warned me to be careful....

It is a super idea but badly run. I know families from South Africa, Spain and the USA who had daughters came to Britain in the 1970's to have their babies here on the NHS! They were from well off families too! When my husband and I lived in West Germany in the 1990's and he became very ill when we went to the hospital in Augsburg the first thing they asked was if we had medical insurance. Of course we did and we had the most fantastic treatment. I use NHS right now and they give me fantastic treatment and the staff all work very hard. The government should give them more staff. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear!

SD

I couldn't agree more. Doctors should be a last resort - and always are where I'm concerned.

Good luck Disgruntled that's a worrying condition.?

Lillie 3 years is not very long to train anyone to do anything, which involves dealing with people and their complaints, real or imaginary.
Skill, knowledge and most of all, experience take far longer than 3 years to acquire.
How would you feel if you were misdiagnosed by an inexperienced practitioner who had minimal training ? Would you blame the practitioner or the system that gave them responsibilities they were not equipped to deal with?
Skill mixing has been tried within the NHS.
Health care assistants are employed in hospital wards and in practices to do 'minor' things but it's unclear whether they are actually cost effective for the NHS. Is it cheaper to have a 15-minute appointment with a phlebotomist for a routine blood test or for the GP to carry out a 30 second procedure during the GP appointment?

There was also that programme called Who's Spending Our Billions? which showed that there are a lot of private companies, management consultants and so on, who promise to "save millions" while sending invoices for billions. That's something that needs to change. I use as many alternative therapies as I can lay my hands on, but this afternoon I'm going to the hospital for IV antibiotics to get rid of cellulitis.