In retrospect, was the NHS such a good idea?

No need to worry about charges at all I've just seen a big red bus coming saying it's got £350 million or zillion a week for the NHS. We'll all be able to have spa treatments as well whoopee !!!

I admire your philanthropy, dj, which reminds me constantly of Robin Hood.

I don't think charging £10 to see a doctor is going to save the NHS.
And it would require a massive overhaul of how GPs are remunerated.

It's hospitals that are the expensive things and hospitals that are under the most stress (GP problems are about recruitment not funding)
There are 30 million taxpayers in the UK. The NHS needs several billion more per year to give us world class treatment and plug the hole in the social care budget.
If all of us taxpayers paid something in the region an average of extra five pounds a week, now that would make a significant difference. Not a fortune and it could be scaled according to income. A drop in the ocean compared to the cost of buying private cover - which usually gives you a very partial cover. (No A and E in private hospitals, for a start)

We wouldn't need to charge if all taxes were collected properly, particuarly from those who can afford private health care.

I think charging £10 to see a doctor is an excellent idea and I would happily pay it even though I now live on a pension. Maybe it would discourage all the time wasters who really have very little wrong with them and could probably deal with their ailments by getting help from a pharmacist.

I am waiting for the supposed millions of pounds worth of savings from Brexit to be earmarked for the NHS (as was suggested to voters in June would be the case if we did not vote Remain)!

I am also waiting for pigs to fly....

I am glad to be living here with our NHS provision, and not in America, where the healthcare you get depends on what you can afford to spend on insurance. I have friends and relatives there on average incomes and who have standard MedicAid cover. One was told she would get no further treatment for her severe arthritis after only eighteen months.(She was losing the use of her hands). One had to pay thousands for the privilege of having her baby (normal birth) in the nearest hospital.Another suffered severe hearing loss as a result of the family not taking her to hospital early enough because of the fear of what that visit might cost.In my opinion,America is no place to be old, poor, or ill.

Our system may not be perfect - it is underfunded and occasionally misused by people who take its services for granted. Perhaps there should be fines? e.g. for people who call 999 for an ambulance when they know there is no emergency...? But the provision of universal health services free at the point of delivery is something we should always, always be grateful for, and work towards maintaining.

Well said!

This is what is going to happen anyway, whatever anyone on here says.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/stewart-player/accountable-care-american-import-thats-last-thing-englands-nhs-needs

While you are discussing it, it is changing. Simon Stevens says it's going to be the biggest reorganisation ever.

One of my DSs and his family live in Australia. There they have a 2 tier system with the moderately well off (2 salaries coming in) buy health insurance and the poorer people make do with a pretty basic NHS type service. I understand that some aspects of the public hospital service can be better than private hospitals. The private hospitals are of course motivated by money and will be doing their best to keep staff costs to a minimum. (was told by DIL a nurse that staffing better in intensive care in public) . The public system are constantly shipping in foreign doctors to work in their public hospitals because most Australian docs go for the higher wages in private practice.
If you have health insurance you go to a private specialist in their own office (which could be anywhere) and then if they recommend tests, run around town to places that do blood tests, ECGs, scans or whatever. These are all sent back to your consultant.
I think the NHS is infinitely better. We just need to pay more, because there are so many more over 70s these days, because of the post war baby boom combined with greatly increased life expectancy. So costs are going up every year. And will continue to do sp. As you get older health insurance becomes more and more expensive. So that is not going o be the answer to dealing with this problem. Even if 10 or 20% of baby boomers started paying for health insurance there is still a large wave of demand building up and starting to break over the health service. It needs more money and there is no use pretending that the problem will go away if you keep undermining the health service.
The alternative would be to say "Well all you folk who have paid your taxes and NI for 40-50 years in the expectation of there being an NHS there when you need it, need to come to terms with the fact that we can no longer afford to treat cancer in the over 70s, or to give expensive cardiac drugs to those of you with heart conditions, or to fix your hips and knees. If you get ill we will offer you palliative care only, and don't expect us to put up a drip to keep you going ."
In fact the government are burying their heads in the sand, secure in the knowledge that they, individually, can afford health insurance.

What really upset me was when I watched a programme about the US and the woman on it had lost her husband through cancer. She had two small children but still had to pay off all his medical expenses after he died. I thought that was disgusting,

VIOLETTE

Very good post and I agree with every word.

ps in answer to the OP - yes, it was and is a good idea Kitty but it needs reform as I think some of it has gone way beyond its original intentions.

Bluecat
Thank you for your great explanation of the US system. I grew up in it and over the years it has gotten so unbelievably complicated.

As you said, they have Health Maintenance Organisations (HMOs) , now more prevalent than in the 1980s, which are plans that dictate which surgery you can attend, hospital, tests, pharmacies, the whole scope of care.

It gets more complicated as should you have two earners in the family, and on two different plans through work, it's not double coverage to make up shortfalls as it was when I was working in the 80s there, it's all about subrogation and is a paperwork nightmare for families to work out.

The worst scenario is catastrophic illness. You can lose your home when you reach the limits of your major medical provision. It used to be $1 million in the 1980s, don't know what it is now. That was not a lot if you had a child with a life limiting condition which could go on for years. Once you run out of assets to make up the shortfall, you have to sell your home. Only when you are completely broke do you become Medicaid eligible (upaid social care). Then you still must find a home to rent... and your future healthcare premiums will be higher. It's a mind-boggler. If interested, this recent Huffington Post article below is short and to the point. The term 'deductible' is what we call an 'excess', and out-of-pocket expenses are the items not covered initially under the plan, but when they reach a limit, eg $13K in the example, THEN the healthcare provider will start paying.

Healthcare access should be a right, not a privilege as it is in the US. I would even pay a bit more tax here in some form if the NHS could become more efficient. The savings from prescribing paracetemol to those who do not pay for prescriptions would be a start! That is crazy when you can buy them for pennies!

www.huffingtonpost.com/randall-horton/illness-as-financial-ruin_b_9031374.html

I also live in France and have found the health provision excellent ..charge for doc appt 23 euros (we pay 25 as our lovely doc is a militant !) (and the 23 now charged is anyway, rising to 25 for everyone next year !). Like the UK, there us a dearth of doctors ..especially in rural France. There is now a scheme for doctors to take a recently qualified young doc into their practice. In our rural area doctors are mostly single practice with surgery in their home (that is the Medicine Traitant ,(GP;s). For my OH and I the top up insurance necessary costs 185 Euros a month ..that is not private insurance. Long term illnesses are often covered by 100% state cover. If you require a translator the cost is up to you,

I worked for the last 10 years I was in the UK, for the NHS so saw first hand how money is wasted. Drink and drugs causing A & E to be over run at the weekends .....non attendance at appointments, paying for translators ......and I agree with someone else on here, WHY are people without serious medical conditions ..i.e. boob jobs, cosmetic surgery, gastric bands ..and the latest IVF for transgenders ?? ye Gods ! I think Aneurin Bevan must be turning in his grave. The NHS was formed to help mostly the poor who would otherwise have died for lack of ability to pay the doctor ,,,not to treat all comers .....if I were ill on a visit the UK I would have to pay ..even though I was a life long tax and NI payer......the only way the NHS is going to survive is by seriously limiting abuse of the system, By charging people for doctors appointments and medical attention (payments could be claimed back if their visits were proven to be necessary) refusing treatment for foreigners who deliberately go to the UK for free treatment ..unless they give credit card or insurance details first). \Perhaps then the NHS could afford to look after those entitled, as in elderly care, which is a disgrace and serious illnesses not caused by eating or drinking too much ! My dad had excellent care for a lung disease caused by working with asbestos as in the 1940s and 50s it was not recognised to be a problem. If he had smoked 60 a day, he would have received the same care ....but that would have been self inflicted so maybe it is harsh, but palliative care would then have been sufficient ! grr ....my rant over ..

Throwing money at the NHS isn't the answer... it must be used efficiently and that is the responsibility of good management.
Have recently been treated North and South of the border...don't be ill in England.

The NHS was a product of its time and now is not fit for purpose. That's not to say the principle is not good. The complete reorganisation of Health & Social Care is such a mammoth task no Government wants to take it on. Tinkering round the edges is no longer an option. I live in France and whilst several posters have said how good the care is, the fact remains that the service is heavily in debt and there is a shortage of GP's and other consultants. There is so much available now in terms of treatment and investigation it has to be paid for, this could be by increased NI contributions or by people having insurance. The Carte Vitale ( green medical card ) as used in France is a good starting point to determine who is entitled to treatment and at what level.

Elrel I'd have thought your carers post discharge wouldn't have been provided by NHS. Surely that is social care not medical care?
I recycled all my compression stockings! Will make lovely Christmas gifts (joke!!!)

It cannot continue as it is!!

I cannot continue as it is and it does need reform. The NHS is hopeless at procurement and needs to have a radical change to way it purchases equipment, drugs etc as they seem to have no-one in charge - surely such a huge organisation should have better bargaining power?

Likewise with using bank medical staff, doctors and nurses employed at huge expense through agencies instead of training enough staff and employing enough directly?

In the main, I think that the elderly may be the heaviest users and do not pay any NI stamp towards it. People may argue that they have paid in all their lives - yes - but why do we not pay a reduced stamp (means-tested) after retirement as a contribution towards our health-care?

When I had to go to A&E recently I was whizzed past a waiting room full of people and taken to be assessed . When I had been dealt with 7 hours later and being wheeled out, the waiting room was still full of people - could they be the same ones as when I arrived? Who knows.

Australia has a reciprocal arrangement with the UK for emergency treatment Yorkshiregel - perhaps if it necessitates a stay in hospital that is why you were charged.

The NHS needs adequate funding but it also needs to be far more efficient. All the PFI run hospitals are costing a fortune and perhaps contracts for them need to be re-assessed.

Interesting discussion. Thanks kittylester. Would love to see the government having a sensible cross-party debate about the NHS and taking it right out of politics
. So sad it has got so unwieldy and our expectations of it are so high. Seems to me that the NHS is only really for accidents and emergencies. We're now paying for dental care and will probably be paying to see the doctor in future.

After surgery I bedblocked because no care plan was in place. It had been highlighted in my notes but not arranged. Somone had overlooked it, I wonder how often that happens.
Otherwise I have no complaints though as an avid recycler I was sad to see metres of crepe bandage and daily pairs of decompression stockings going in the bins. Also surprised how many times I've been asked for full details of medication I'm on. There seems to be no way for the various departments to access my information from a central file.
When I did get home the care was great, except that one evening a glitch meant two separate carers were sent. I had a nine pm doorstep conversation that basically went I'm your carer
No you're not, I've already had one
I'm your carer
No, she's been.

Awkward for both and a waste of NHS funding.

People with private insurance must be aware that there is a limit on the amount of treatment they are entitled to. My late FIL had it through his job, unfortunately my MIL had 2 hip replacements and other treatment, so when he was needed a heart op it was the NHS. And as has been said the staff in private hospitals trained in NHS hospitals. It will also be an NHS hospital you will need if ever you need emergency care, so having to pay both costs seems reasonable to me.

Privatisation isn't the only alternative to NHS

And no I don't agree with privatisation!

Lots of excellent ideas! I don't see that we can continue to increase funding for the NHS to cover all medical needs (the ones we currently provide free)for the future. So there needs to be a sensible, national, cross party discussion - think someone else suggested that. We could consider: charging the drunks who clog up A&E, charging for those who miss appointments, charging to put right plastic surgery undertaken abroad and which has gone wrong. We could also allow people to die when they want to, legalising some drugs and taxing them. The repeat prescription system is very wasteful, so needs reform. Big Pharma is a tremendous problem as is the over-prescribing of drugs. Should we be prescribing drugs which can be easily bought over the counter? I do not agree with charging for terminations (this could drive it underground - and my grandma died of a back street abortion) nor for gender reassignment. Any other ways we could save money?