will our grandchildren have to work till they drop? I hope not[sad]

When we baby boomers die, we will be leaving our savings and houses to our children and grandchildren. This is what may save them from working till they drop.

I expected to get my pension this Autumn when I am sixty but won't receive it until I'm 66. I am lucky in that I am able, as an artist, to be flexible about my work and run classes and art holidays for adults which I enjoy but is tiring, not sure how long I will be able to do it but will for as long as I can. We were also lucky in that we were able to buy our first two houses when prices were comparatively cheap and were able to sell our last house for a good price and buy something smaller, cheaper and easier to heat etc so to put money in the bank. We have been able to help our son and his family buy their first house by lending them some of this money which they are paying back monthly. What many people don't seem to realise is that rents are very high as most of it is with private landlords and housing is in short supply so they have to earn a lot of money to be able to save too. Our son and DIL had got a deposit but were paying £700 a month rent for a three (small) bed terraced house. In my day rents were relatively cheap so there was a chance to save towards a mortgage. It is not our fault, other than we haven't held successive governments to account and made them build more council and private houses. We will be back to the days of 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' by Robert Tressell, if you've not read it I recommend it, download it free here www.freeclassicebooks.com/Robert%20Tressell/The%20Ragged%20Trousered%20Philanthropists.pdf

All this talk about the baby boomers being the lucky generation is premature. Only the oldest of them has actually retired yet, and most of them hope to live for quite some years yet. They have not yet received the pensions that people keep saying are so wonderful, and there is no guarantee that they ever will. There are already signs of government making the state pension less generous (and it is hardly overwhelmingly generous right now); companies are defaulting on their schemes or seeking to retrospectively change the terms. There is no guarantee that all the insurance companies that are paying out annuities will remain in business. The government backed scheme that pays out 90% of entitlement for failed pension schemes could be modified in future to offer a much lower figure. And so on. In the end, the baby boomers can only receive what society can afford to pay them, they are not in a position to force pension payments at gun point! The only generations we can be sure were lucky in relation to pensions are those that are now dead and while living were in receipt of good, index linked pensions.

I think it is time youngsters started to realise how much time they have ahead of them and start planning for it. They don't seem to think further than next week. They assume that everything will fall into their lap without them doing anything about it. It is partly our fault for not teaching them about later life and how to prepare for it. Let's not leave it too late to encourage them to prepare.

In many ways, I think we are currently risking a return to something like the inequalities prevalent in Victorian times. Well off landlords hold immense power over tennants. Rent for many young people costs a disproportionately large percentage of their income - and these are the 'lucky' ones who have a secure enough job to even be considered as potential tenants. Notice can be given on a whim, causing great upheaval. A friend (a teacher, in what used to be a highly respected profession) has recently experienced this.

Access to healthcare will increasingly be for those fortunate enough to afford it.

I sometimes think the old Victorian mill owners must be laughing like drains at the way we have sleep-walked into to almost 24/7 accountability to our employers. How many people have the luxury of the old ideal of working 8 hours, leisure for 8 and sleep for 8? Commuting and the requirement to be always available online have put paid to that and I'm not at all sure that all our so called labour saving devices make up for it. Most people seem hugely stressed by either too much work or the total inability to secure it. Working until we drop is becoming a reality again.

I hope as a society we waken up soon and decide to be kinder to ourselves, each other and to future generations. Sorry to sound so pessimistic!

Yes - our grandchildren won't have the retirement that many 'Baby Boomers' have had, but not all. State pensions can only be funded from NIC and tax, and we're living longer. The workforce in the UK needs more than todays’ young people in order to fill our vacancies, i.e. immigrants from all countries. The message to get across to our children & grandchildren, is to cut down on spend/borrow today and worry about tomorrow later, AND save at least 15% of earnings from the day they start work, join every pension scheme they are offered. Can they do this with mortgages and children? Many can't - so then what of retirement with little income? Can't rely on selling the house, the boom won't go on.

I'm not sure who these people who retire early on big pensions are - I don't seem to know any of them! My father worked until he was 73 and my grandad worked (PT at the end) until six weeks before he died at 84yo, having left school and started work in a coal mine at 12yo.

There has been a thread on GN about a Universal Income which is interesting. Maybe that's how things will pan out eventually.

Universal income is a really interesting concept.

My brother does the same job as my father did, he works twice as hard for half the lifestyle, plus his partner works too whereas my mum never worked outside the home. He is just as financially astute as my dad, he made do mend where necessary, he was however born in a different time. This is the reality of life today. Great post Parsley!

I can assure SueDonim that there are lots of people who retired early on large pensions, I know and live among many of them.

I do think about the future and the prospects for the next generation, but "t'were ever so". I was born before the war and my mother said that her generation worried about whether or not we children would survive Hitler's onslaughts.
Our grandchildren will adapt to the circumstances that prevail, and as they have a longer life-expectancy than we have, they will still be able to enjoy a reasonably lengthy retirement.
We must not feel guilty about this, which will only make "the next generation" feel hard done by.

I'm sure they must exist, Annsixty, it's just that whoever they are, they're outside of my family and friends!

Thinking about friends and neighbours, all retired, there are some on large pensions who took the opportunity to retire at 60, 55 in one case. There are also many who worked way past the retirement age at the time. For myself I was entitled to state pension and a very small occupational pension at 60, not enough to live on so I carried on until I was 67 and health brought working life to an end. Mr C worked 5 years after state retirement age. There will always be a mix of realities, people will continue to think others had life easier, it's human nature. Life brings challenges, always. Parsley gives us food for thought, I agree the expectations of many employers are for immediate contact. Often at an unreasonable level which is likely to be long term damaging to health. For us there is much worry about the pressure our children are under and the impact on their wellbeing. My current personal headache is how to stop the capital that was supposed to suport older age and yes he,p our families from being eroded by low or the anticipated no interest rates. The sums currently just about add up. The future is scary, though. Just another challenge.

Sorry, meant to add that many friends not only worked past retirement age but still have meagre pensions - missed that bit out .

I just thought, it isn't simply about the age of retirement, it's the number of years worked, as well. My Dh joined the Royal Navy at 16 and worked until he was 68. His plan had been to work until he was 70 but he had to retire to look after me after I had an accident. He worked in total for 52 years. I doubt any of my children will work FT for that number of years although they've had holiday jobs etc while at uni.

Exactly. bags.

It is ridiculous to imagine that people can be retired for as long (if not longer) than they earn. People are living so much longer even now and are a cost to society in health and social care and in pensions.

And, apart from really arduous jobs, keeping working is good for you. We could do with some sort of gradual retirement such as a job share system. DH is still working at 71 and would like to continue on a part time basis if the system allowed.

None of us know what the future holds for us, our DC or our DGC.
How can anyone predict that my DGC, all under 8, will have to work until their 80s?
Gordon Brown said there was 'no more boom and bust' which was proved to be hopelessly optimistic - the banking crisis put paid to that. World financial affairs go in cycles and not one of the experts has a crystal ball even though they confidently assure us they know what the next 50+ years will hold.

It is worrying that people put their money into firms' pension schemes in the hope that they will have an income in retirement, but mismanagement of these schemes (or what amounts to fraud) has left these schemes way off the mark to provide what people hope for when they retire. This is a matter that needs addressing urgently.
This has happened in the past as a relative of mine was a victim of an offshoot of Mirror pension group debacle ( other small firms were involved too).

Unfortunately a university education is not always the route to a well-paid job and there is no use in young people saddling themselves with crippling debts with no prospect of obtaining a job with a reasonable salary or career path at the end of it because they took a degree they enjoyed rather than what the country may need in the future.

Expectations are different with each generation, my mum didn't have a washing machine or vacuum cleaner before I was in my teens, I went without 'extras' to save for our first house when we got married, our first furniture, white goods etc was all second hand and going out for a meal was a luxury reserved for very special occasions. Today's youngsters expect to go out and enjoy themselves more often, they want all the gadgets and technology for their homes and the emphasis seems to be in ensuring that they are having a 'good' life whilst they are young and that must be paid for. Nothing wrong in that obviously, things are just different now, but nothing comes for free, you can only have what you can afford and if you focus on the here and now rather than the future, then when the future has crept up (usually unnoticed!) then you have to take the consequences. I'm very much for living your life as you want to, if that means enjoying your earlier life and a less comfortable retirement then so be it, 'you pays your money and takes your choice'.

Economic changes and pressures on a macro level do mean that things will be much more difficult for ordinary people to retire as early as they have been able to in the past, and this is not good news for both those wishing to retire and young people wanting to enter employment. So far so bad.

But I have to express some solidarity with Blondehedgehog. Yes, my ex and I at the age of 25 (both working full time) were able to buy a small house in the 1970's because prices were only three times the national average wage instead of the 5+ they are now.And this was a good investment for the future then as prices went up because not enough homes to buy or rent were being built.But, like lots of others, we went without new clothes, meals out, weekends away and holidays abroad so we could pay the mortgage, and put off having a family for over five years.My children have not done any of this.

Because of health problems my pension income is much smaller than I might have expected when I was young and fit. But over the years my adult children have had a lot of help from me even when times were bad. They are now in good jobs and decently housed - however this does not stop my SIL from putting the pressure on for me to leave my home before I am ready, and free up what he sees as my baby boomer capital to fund a more affluent lifestyle for himself and my daughter in return for a promise to look after me in my later years. I do not think living under the same roof would be a good idea to put it mildly, and I value my independence.My daughter does not put me under the same pressure but it is still annoying. There seems to be a lot of inter generational resentment around because of these structural changes in society. Ia anyone else experiencing similar pressure from the younger generation who feel miffed as a result?

My husband retired last year at 66 and has worked since he was 16, I will not get my state pension until I'm 65. I think you will find most late baby boomers will already have to work until they are 67. Our grandchildren at least have time to prepare by paying into a pension now, unlike a lot of baby boomers who stayed at home to look after the children and couldn't have a pension even if they had the money to pay in.

I am one of the 'lucky'(also provident) ones who retired on a good final salary pension at 60 claiming my state pension 8 months later .I always paid into my employers scheme and ,as we got better off, did AVC s as well, as did DH . It meant DH could retire at 60 and we lived off my income alone until he was 65 ,dipping into savings for holidays etc
We paid our DDs expenses through university and have been able to give them substantial sums to help with property purchase which we see as part of their pensions. We would rather they had the money now when they need it .Both are paying extra into their employers pension scheme at our urging
I am from a very poor working class background but went to university when few people especially girls did .DH middle class but not rich .We have worked hard and saved hard for what we have but I doubt our DDs ,despite a strong work/save ethic ,will have our standard of living in retirement
I had worked full time for 18 years while raising our children .I was on my knees (mostly stress)by 60

I think it is unhelpful to pitch generations against each other but one thing that bothers me about many of today's younger people is the refusal / reluctance to start a private pension. Younger family members insist they can't afford to contribute to a pension or even save yet frequently have weekends away, buy lots of clothes, eat out etc. One of my nieces told me that her generation want experiences and will worry about the future later. I think that financial planning should be a compulsory subject at school.

I was born in 1962 and have been told that I will have to work until I am 67 and 6 months . I envisage this creeping up over the years until it perhaps reaches 70 or even older . In the future maybe only those fortunate enough to have good private pensions will ever beable to retire and the rest of us will just have to work until we drop.
I did hear some of the discussion on radio 4 yesterday morethan2 but had to turn it off it as it was making me very angry.
Why is it assumed that those of us who have not been in the position to save or invest in good pensions have spent the money on luxuries?
The new work place pension is a farce .

Do you not think though gilly that you stand a good chance of being capable of working till that age and that you will most likely have at least another 20 years to enjoy your pension. In fact, much longer than when pensions were first brought in.

No kittylester I absolutely don't . I have an extremely stessful job and my health isn't wonderful to start with . I am not being melodramatic when I say that I honestly don't think I will live long enough to see a pension of any kind.

I'm reasonably healthy for my age [64] and only worked part time for the NHS [although I did often work 12 hour days to cover for people]. If I was still working I'm sure that I'd have to be in bed by 7 o'clock most nights [possibly even earlier]. I'm so thankful that a small pension enabled me to retire at 62. I think the last couple of years working really took a toll on my health. I don't know how generations to come will cope with having no grandparents to help with childcare or older people to help care for their parents.