Has Germany now changed? And France? And possibly Belgium?

Look out for von und zu Michael

Or vice versa?

By the way, has deMichael changed his name to VonMichael, who is also posting about Prussia?

Ooh as the granddaughter of very loving but OMG strict (East) Prussian grandparents, deMichael I would be wary of lauding "Prussian virtues " in the same way that people speak glibly of Victorian values, forgetting all the hypocrisy, misery, exploitation, intransigence, grinding poverty of the seamy underbelly of the Victorian era.
I also absolutely disagree from my own perspective of visits to Germany to my GPs who had relocated to near Osnabrück through to 1968 that these "Prussian" values were typical of Germany through the to the 70's. Of that generation perhaps, but not my own teenage and young adult contemporaries
Earlier up thread you said Prussia still exists because we still have Berlin and Potsdam etc. I found Potsdam very beautiful when I visited on several occasions and see Berlin a vibrant, cosmopolitan, "happening" trendy city now the very antithesis of the city as conceived in its Prussian heyday.
The thing I find about modern Germany is how unGerman things seem nowadays. Yes the trains still run on time and litter is absolutely frowned on, but the stiff, formal society of my childhood is no more. Germany has become a truly modern European country and while my experience does not include the most recent events since 2014, it seems to me a country which neither my mother or my grandparents would recognise today.

* re to granjura,

well I live very closed to Düsseldorf means the center of Germany.

Re to be born and raised as a Prussian means I learned all the Prussian virtues which characterized Germany till the end of the 70s.

I have never been to the UK in my life but I had closed contacts to member of the BFG ( British Forces Germany )so I learned a tiny bit of the British mentality.
As far as it concerns the situation we live in I would like to answer it with an English expression;
Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Which I would like to extend by my own definition; keep politicians, banker and skunks at distance, never ever trust them.

To be honest Daphne I have to check place names in German because lots of them end in ...burg, ...berg, ...bach. French towns seem easier to know because they sound so individual, but even they get complicated when so many begin with "Saint." And let's not get started on Welsh town names!

Our daughter has lived in Berlin for the last ten years and is in the process of applying for German citizenship. She loves her life there and is currently working in a refugee camp in Munich. She has many friends of all nationalities as Berlin has a lot of young people from all over the world living there and is very involved with helping refugees.
She has a Syrian refugee living with her and her husband in their ( tiny) flat as do many other people. Germans have been sorely tested Recently but still seem determined to welcome these newcomers wherever they come from. All credit to them, but these are unsettling times not only for Germany but for us all.

Margaret it is probably obvious to anybody that the geography of German cities is an area where I "need to try harder"!!
I know the places I know, if you see what I mean - Hamburg, the Rhine area around Koblenz, Leipzig, Dresden and Berlin and although I did once drive from Hamburg to Hannover, I always think motorways show you nothing of the geography of a country.
I did actually au pair just outside Suttgart when I was 18 but never got the chance to venture outside the city.
I must try harder
I must try harder
I must try harder...........

Augsberg is near Munich not Stuttgart.

Niedersachsen is the old British Zone and well loved by English people but to my mind its not real Germany, its too near Belgium and Holland

I lke it where the sun is stronger, the woods thicker and greener and you see red roofed houses and market towns with farmers markets and good, old, wellloved traditions.
Its like the UK some people love the North, the climate there and others the South.
The old tend to gravitate southwards but I don't see it as a problem. We have problems now that we knew nothing about 25 years ago and its the same with people retiring.
We can't do much about it and our children will just have to cope with it.

vonMichael thank you for your comments.

Margaretx pragmatic was the word I used in my first post too. Apart from knowing my friend and her German family for over 40 years, I have worked with many Germans in Germany in both the agricultural machinery industry and the IT world. I travelled all over Europe, but I don't think any nation is more pragmatic than Germany. (I've always said the only other country I would like to live in is Germany.)

I think we do have a tendency to expect quick fixes in the UK and that causes some of the problems for newly elected governments. In the UK, the problem of an ageing population is also looming. Apart from raising the retirement age, I'm not aware of any other policy to tackle the problem (Germany has also been raising the retirement age). It's an EU problem.

How did I guess you might be a lecturer ?

OP's there was me thinking it was somewhere near Stuttgart
Maybe I was thinking of Augsburg!!

I am not a geographer, Daphne, but I am a lecturer and translator of German, and Wolfsburg is in Niedersachsen - Im Nordwesten der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

Wolfsburg - South Germany surely?

Not splitting hairs Margaretx I did a tour of the Mercedes factory in Bremen - North Germany to pick up my car. Our son also visited the VW factory in Wolfsburg - North Germany so I assume there are thriving industrtes in the north too.
The point is most of these immigrants don't speak German, don't have the Western work ethic and are nowhere near being highly skilled mechanics. Maybe Germany will have to start from the beginning with the children in school, but that won't slove the corrent problem for a decade or two.

Is this a British thing to expect a solution to a problem to appear in a few weeks? So the papers have another topic.

Germans are pragmatists and meet problems head on and do something about it. A lot of immigrants especially children have not even been to school, but we can't do anything about it except feed them and look after them as some will not be accepted but while they are in Germany they will be well treated. A lot of them are men and there has been talk of them neglecting their family responsibilities by leaving female relatives un protected in those camps where they came from.
obione - if your family wants to come to Germany and get a job then they must learn some German first for a decent job
Just like there are several Englands then there are several Germanys. the rich industrious South,home to BMW and Mercedes and Audi, and the flatter Northern states where there is a lot of unemployment and the cities which have their foodbanks.

vonMichael- where do you live now, if I may ask?

There are Huguenots Churches, Museums and even Churches (as in the basement of Canterbury Cathedral) in many places, here in Switzerland, in the Cape South Africa, and in the UK- it doesn't mean Huguenot culture is still 'alive' eg relevant to today's society- apart from its influence on history and culture. Prussia is gone- and has been for a long time. Harking back for Ye Old Days with pink coloured glasses it not really hepful in the present situation.

And Berlin has become massively multicultural- and like London, all the richer for it (although I think you might disagee).

Oddly enough Petra I believe they would have "stuck out" almost as much, especially the Orthodox Jews. Religion and religious observation, facial chsracteristvs ( in many cases) clothing, food, names, occupations. Jews were highly visible and when the general going got tough, they were the first to get going- I.e. be sent packing - or worse.
I know from family history as does at least one other GNetter (but sadly I have forgotten who) whose forebears came from the same area of East Prussia as my own.

Many white refugees were Jews and Muslims (Albania, etc) and vastly different culturally. Until very recently here in Europe. refugees who were Catholics were considred to be hugely culturally different- as when the italians arrived in the South of France or here in Switzerland - or in t he USA too. So were Huguneots and Menonites in earlier times- and Jews in Italy or England too (Merranos)... The concept of 'Christians' from all denominations is indeed a very recent thing. When my Protestant mother married a Catholic in the mid 40s- it was a massive scandal.

I lived in East Berlin for a few months 2 years after the fall of the wall- and the East and West Berliners felt like 2 very distinct people, with very different cultures- and found it very hard to communicate- they felt totally alien from each other.

daphneBroon. well for a start they would have been white refugees. And before anyone screams Rascist, I'm just stating the obvious. And I would imagine they had a lot more in common than with anyone from Somalia, Pakistan, Iraqu, Iran, Afganistan etc etc.

Well let me explain it please; Prussia is still alive cos we have Berlin, Potsdam and many Prussian institution like the Prussian Cultural Heritage Foundation.

To the current situation we live in; we owe ourself more than 6.5 million unemployed people. Why is that so; cos the majority of unskilled jobs has been eradicated.
Example; the assembly line work in the factories has been replaced by automation and robotics which I think that's the same in the UK.

I think you narrow our situation a bit Wilma. Young German couple relinquish of having children (out of various reason ). That's one point. It's true the elderly people live longer
and as far it concerns the former DDR its also true some parts of the new territories ( with agricultural districts )have a generation problem which can't be solved by emigrants. We get the fruit and vegetable supply from all over the world and at any season of the year similar to you in the UK. No, both the German industry and economy are on high level and have to compare with China, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, USA and has not time until the young ones learn our language and get trained for the job. Despite all that we have a huge number of young and well educated people coming in from Greece, Spain, Italy a.s.o. and the Arab world will never become an export markets in the near future. Our situation now after after our chancellor has lifted the border looks like this; Germany is paying nearly bil.€ 5.5 for the integration of the refugees per year. Sweden, Norway, Danmark, Austria, Hungaria have closed their border cos they can't effort and support the influx of the last 12 month.

When I first said I would like to have my live back that I've lived before than just read what's going on in France, Belgium and Germany within the last 12 month. No, the British government has judged the upcoming situation in Europe very well and will (perhaps) take over a role model function for other countries in Europe. Who knows???

Come off it vonMichael-. Did you live in (the former) East Prussia? What about the pogroms of past centuries and waves of Jewish refugees being swept across from the East?

Sorry Granjura, times I have and I had in mind were before we had the influx of migrants.

Thanks for the insights.

obieone Germany requires more than just skilled workers, it needs younger people. You need to look at the bigger picture. The change in Germany's population is very uneven. The population in the countryside and the eastern part of Germany is reducing faster than the rest of the country. As the population ages and reduces, more younger people, including those with families, move to the large urban areas mainly in the west where prospects and services are better. The small towns and villages all over Germany are becoming left with older and/or less mobile people. The loss of families means schools and child care disappear, making these places less attractive. Banks and libraries close. Public transport disappears. The infrastructure disappears with the population, so Germany needs a wide range of people, not just skilled workers.

Germany has had plans in place to deal with this situation since 2011, but it's an ongoing process. There's mixed opinions on the plans, as there always will be with major change. One good thing is youth unemployment is much lower in Germany than in most other EU countries. The ageing and declining population problem is much more important.