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Have you made your mind up about the referendum?

(530 Posts)
obieone Thu 19-May-16 08:36:16

Yes.

I am curious to know how many have. Personally I do not read much about it any more, nor talk about it as dont see the point.

Gracesgran Thu 26-May-16 18:45:52

Just noticed what Noam Chomsky has said "Brexit would leave Britain even more subordinated to US power than it is today which I don't think would be good for the world, or for Britain."

I remember that, before we joined the EU, the complaint was so often about the US dictating to us and I see no reason why this should not happen again. I feel we (well I do) have more in common with Europe than the US. I was about three quarters "remain" but this thought has bumped me up a little. I do not want a country like America.

I notice a campaign has formed (or I have only just noticed it). There is a face book page here and a web page here This is very much what I wanted to hear.

Jalima Thu 26-May-16 18:36:48

Not agreeing with the figures btw without checking - just that the EU sells more to us than we sell to them.

Jalima Thu 26-May-16 18:36:09

The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.
I would tend to agree with that statement

We are free to trade with other countries
And I agree with that statement (didn't know about the live pigs though). How strange that we send pigs to China and Thailand & Brazil send chickens to the UK.

I will have a look at what Gisela Stuart is saying.

Royandsyl Thu 26-May-16 18:30:36

I don't have to think about it. oUT, OUT, OUT.I have akways voted conservative but David Cameron has done us no favours. We will get on o.k. without being in the EU. I was born in 1936 and remember so much. Britain is strong and we will do fine.

whitewave Thu 26-May-16 18:18:04

dj thems my thoughts exactly!!!! How naughty some people are!

durhamjen Thu 26-May-16 18:14:38

Some of your statements are a bit worrying, Englishrose.
Of course Britain's MEPs are a minority. So are every other country's MEPs. There are 28 countries. Do you know any country that has over 376 MEPs? Thought not.

We are free to trade with other countries. I just read in today's paper that we have exported thousands of live pigs to China since 2012.

By the way, some of your post looks as though it's been cut and pasted from a pamphlet for the Leave brigade. They do not sound like personal reasons.

whitewave Thu 26-May-16 18:03:30

Glad you didn't write an essay english?

petra Thu 26-May-16 17:57:24

At last the leave campaign have brought out someone who doesn't rant, is articulate and knows what she is talking about: Gisela Stuart, Labour MP for Edgbaston.

Welshwife Thu 26-May-16 17:48:25

I think that a lot of the problem is dear Nigel et al have for years been telling a lot of porkies - bear in mind he was doing this while accepting his pay from Brussels and not attending on a regular basis - and in the end when you keep hearing the same lies over and over again people start to believe it and nothing will change their minds.

It is unfortunate that if those who feel we should leave because they have some ideal UK they wish to get back to, actually win the referendum it is the young who will be left to try and pick up the pieces of a Britain which is likely to be broken. But at the moment the UK is a democracy so that is their right.

EnglishRose Thu 26-May-16 17:46:47

These are just a few of my personal reasons for leaving the EU. I've tried to keep them short and to the point. There are others but I don't want to write an essay!

I believe that releasing Britain from the EU will help create a far stronger and outward looking economy. One that is free to trade both with the EU and outside of the EU.

With the EU in charge of doing our negotiating with the outside world is holding back our growth. When Britain joined the EU, it made up some 37% of global GDP. Today it’s more like 20%.

The EU is a huge entity, with many conflicting aims. It’s a political rugby match with all 28 teams on the pitch at the same time. As a result, EU trade talks with the rest of the world have almost come to a full stop

Alone, Britain could finalise trade deals the globe over. And these would allow us to set low import tariffs on things that aren't made in Britain, while setting higher tariffs on cheap competitor products. Setting import and export tariffs is hugely important to Britain’s economic interests. It should not be delegated to a team of bureaucrats pulling in all sorts of different directions.

The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.

Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.

Nigel Farage believes Britain could strike an agreement with the EU that is similar to Norway’s – where they have access to the EU’s single market, but are not bound by EU agriculture, justice, or home affairs laws.

Leaving would allow the UK’s government and financial authorities to design a regulatory framework that is more suited to our needs.

Immigration. This is arguably the most charged issue in the referendum debate.

One of the EU’s founding principles is the free movement of people. Because of this, the UK has no control over immigration from other EU member states. Those who wish to leave the EU cite health and benefits tourism from other EU citizens – where people visit or migrate to the UK because of what they perceive as a more generous welfare system, or the NHS.
Many millions of tax paying ordinary working people and their families do not see there is any justice in people using our NHS without have to pay, especially as they have never contributed anything into the system. It is causing huge blockages in the system, closures of Accident and emergency (Chorley,Lancs Hospital last night reported on the news) Women coming over specifically to have their babies causing expectant mothers who already live and work here to give birth in overcrowded wards with overworked and exhausted staff.

When we travel abroad as UK citizens we take out medical insurance cover and an EEC card to cover the cost of treatment should we fall ill. Why cannot this apply to everyone coming into this country who does not have a job and is therefore unable to pay into the system?

The issue of how to regulate welfare for EU migrants was one of the main sticking points in Cameron’s recent negotiations with EU leaders. Recently, some pro-Brexit ministers have claimed the UK is at greater risk of a terror attack while part of the EU. Considering the vast numbers of refugees and immigrants coming into Europe, I should have thought this was inevitable. Our infrastructure, and all our Services are being overwhelmed.

We have very little say within the EU, and would have far more leverage outside EU as an independent sovereign nation and the world’s 5th largest economy. The UK currently has only 8.4% of voting power ‘say’ in the EU, and the Lisbon Treaty ensured the loss of Britain’s veto in many more policy areas.

Britain’s 73 MEPs are a minority within the 751 in the European Parliament.

British industries such as fishing, farming, postal services and manufacturing have already been devastated by Britain’s membership of the EU.

EU membership costs UK billions of pounds and large numbers of lost jobs thanks to unnecessary and excessive red tape, substantial membership and aid contributions, inflated consumer prices and other associated costs. The Common Fisheries Policy has cost British coastal communities 115,000 jobs.

Britain has a substantial ‘portfolio of power’ in its own right, which includes membership of the G20 and G8 Nations, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council (one of only 5 members) and seats on the International Monetary Fund Board of Governors and World Trade Organisation. The UK also lies at heart of the Commonwealth of 53 nations. Moreover, London is the financial capital of the world and Britain has the sixth largest economy. The UK is also in the top ten manufacturing nations in the world.

Released from the EU commitment to generate 20 per cent of power from “renewable” sources we could finally admit hilltop windmills are on a par with hamster power for meeting our energy needs and recover some of our beautiful green spaces from the Greens!!!

Rafts of law and public policy that nobody ever voted for just arrived. It was as if British governments had outsourced governing to a call center in Mumbai. Whether the EU Ministers were elected or not, this is NOT Democracy!

Stop the waste on the EU's control structures in Britain, particularly its 8,500 quangos costing £167 billion annually – the biggest single treasury expenditure.

Abolish the EU’s VAT, and its 120,000 regulations, returning freedom to business and people.

Abolish the secret family courts that snatch 4,500 attractive children annually from good families for forced adoption. (Frankfurt School social engineering)

Rebuild our armed forces, which the EU has been deliberately destroying.

Throw out our corrupt, EU appointed judges, bring justice back to our now rotten courts.

Review the Human Rights Bill.

durhamjen Thu 26-May-16 17:33:32

Fact, the EU costs each of us less than the cost of a television licence per year.
Fact, between the European Commission and the European Parliament the EU employs roughly the same number of people as a midsize UK council.

Both of these have been given as reasons to leave. They seem to me to be reasons to stay.

Leticia Thu 26-May-16 17:12:14

I have finally decided .......IN

petra Thu 26-May-16 16:58:45

The word 'odious' is too kind a discription for this man. Don't forget the dodgy deals he did with eBay when he was President of Luxemburg ( luxemburg is ebays eu head quarters)

Jane10 Thu 26-May-16 16:57:42

Well I'm IN!!

Jalima Thu 26-May-16 16:46:24

Jean-Claude Junker in particular is so vindictive that the UK will be made to pay whatever the decision
I read something online that described him as odious.
Now - do we wish to be bullied by someone like that and their threats?
Leave and stand up to his threats or stay and work from within to change the system?

To get a result which the future generation doesn't want seems perverse to me. What's to do?
I am asking younger members of my family and will vote accordingly, not how I feel.

The under-25s have only themselves to blame if they don't bother to vote and don't get what they want. The older generation can't take the blame for their apathy.
That is true Maggiemaybe, the 'younger generation' I am asking are probably 30-55 !

rosesarered Thu 26-May-16 16:14:35

That's true Ana ?

Evenstar Thu 26-May-16 16:12:37

It's definite Out vote from us.

Ana Thu 26-May-16 16:00:08

Remember the last GE Gransnet survey? The results were scarily close to the actual vote, despite all the poll predictions!

alchemilla Thu 26-May-16 15:59:50

@pennyh47 I'm still sitting on the fence but if you decide in just because you're buying in Spain and may live there .... plenty of Brits did before we joined the common market and EU. Our laws are still different including inheritance laws and taxes, so those wouldn't change.

rosesarered Thu 26-May-16 15:56:19

Shame that Gransnet is not deciding the vote, because most want OUT! smile

Marianne1953 Thu 26-May-16 14:58:21

I think he really wants remain

Welshwife Thu 26-May-16 14:43:58

I think for the sake of the young we should remain in the union. The young people have far greater job opportunities within the EU and also studying schemes such as Erasmus which enables them to study in another country. It will take a time to disentangle ourselves from the EU if the vote is for leaving but the UK will have no say whatsoever in the discussions as to what will happen to our relationship but will just have to accept whatever the other nations decide. They are very unlikely to act favourably towards us as UK will have chosen to walk away. If there is no agreement within the two years allotted unless the other nations all agree to an extension the Uk will simply be out in the cold. That is what the rules say. No one has yet tried them out as no country has yet left.
The UK has far more to lose than the rest of EU which only sells us 10% of their goods and some nations sell us nothing so won't care a jot anyway. Once out we would not be able to renegotiate to join again if we decided it was a mistake.

grannymouse303 Thu 26-May-16 14:12:00

IN! I and my children and grandchildren have travelled, worked and appreciated many aspects of the EU. There's more to life than the economy. I see my family as European. Particularly when seeking solace during a long Tory reign.

GillT57 Thu 26-May-16 14:04:59

My biggest problem is the hysterical rubbish being spouted by both sides of the argument; they obviously have little respect for the intelligence of their voters. Too many people are voting on the basis of the promised return to some mythical 1950s Britain as promised by Farage et al. do we really want that? For information: Norway is a fantastic place, I know, I have lived and worked there, but this is because it is a country of very high taxation with a very good system of public services, so I really dont know why the lower taxation/less public services supporters are using it as their example, yet another example of people being misled. I also think that the 16 year olds should have been enfranchised as in the Scottish Independence Referendum, this very important vote will affect them the most, and on a recent holiday I did find myself getting irritated by 85+ year olds announcing themselves as voting OUT. Yes, of course everyone should have the vote, but those who will not be living through the repercussions of their OUT vote shoud be thinking more of other perhaps (dons tin hat). As for those people who think that Boris is a good ole boy.....please.....he is a manipulative nasty bit of work who is playing the public for fools to further his own agenda. I have had many a discussion, and read many articles, and the bottom line is that I cannot possibly vote for anything which has the support of the coven of Ian Duncan-Smith, Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and George Galloway to name but a few of the loathsome individuals giving their names to the OUT campaign.

ajanela Thu 26-May-16 13:58:23

Yes Penny, if we leave the British passport holders abroad will have difficulties especially re free medical treatment which is very good in some EU countries. Also what will happen to their pensions and other benefits they receive from the uk.