Have you made your mind up about the referendum?

Awful thought Lumpy

Geminite, I read your post. You must be very young.
My grandparents were born in the 1870s, not my great great grandparents, or even my great grandparents.
What war are you talking about?

I like Trumpton I know I said Trumpton, but am having second thoughts now - Trumpton was such a benign place with all the lovely characters including Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grubb.
We still have the LP somewhere.

My great great grandmother was born in 1812 so it could have been the Anglo-American War or the Napoleonic War perhaps?

Did you have whole families going off to war then?
I thought you only joined up in the Napoleonic wars if you wanted to be a soldier. Or was that when they had pressgangs?
Except that was for the navy, wasn't it?

Anyway, if you are going to Costcutter, it just shows that the EU works, if the cheapest Snickers are in Polish.
Except that Costcutters is probably breaking trading standards law.

I'd forgotten about the butter mountain. I had a couple of weeks free before college and my mother heard that some of my friends had claimed unemployment benefit for the holidays instead of getting Summer jobs. I was sent down to the dole office to fill in the forms and many weeks later we duly received two vouchers, each for half a pound of butter. Every little helps, I suppose

Geminite I am very surprised you quoted how all of one generation of your family was lost in the war - the original idea of a European Coalition was exactly to stop that happening again - Churchill was one of the original people discussing it with other European leaders. Those of us who do really remember before the EU can only see benefits of being members. The UK was no great place to live before we joined - yes we could make our own laws but most of the best ones that we have now originated from the EU - working practises and protection for the workers - all sorts of rights. We also have more rights when we purchase goods which prove to be faulty. - many many things.
40% of the UK goods are exported to the EU - we import 10% of theirs and some countries sell us nothing. Slightly different slant on things.
We need to be outward looking and stop worrying about Boris and his scaremongering - many services will collapse without migration and the country will be in a fine way. It will take more than a year before we start to get back on track if we pull out - it will take two years before we know what our true situation will be.

Welshwife some people bear grudges for generations sadly.

Sorry Welshwife I remember before the EU and I don't see all the benefits. I see a growing political union - which I didn't vote for - and increasingly silly and restrictive legislation like restricting the power of vacuum cleaners! (that's a current one). I voted for an economic union and if that is what we still had I would be voting to stay in. As it is I'm definitely an "outer" much though it pains me to agree with Michael Gove about anything.
The sad thing is that the campaign has become so silly, personally acrimonious and full of scaremongering on both sides that I can't see how the politicians will ever be able to work together again. It doesn't matter which side wins - the UK will be in trouble.

Was that pun intended, joan?

Restricting the power of vacuum cleaners is a good idea. It's about energy efficiency, the same with kettles and toasters.
We need to reduce the amount of electricity we consume.

fullfact.org/europe/first-they-came-vacuum-cleaners-will-it-be-kettles-next/

This is what it's all about.

www.thecanary.co/2016/05/26/image-just-humiliated-camerons-eu-campaign-going-viral-image/

I think Cameron is going to be out whatever the result. He's beginning to look more ridiculous by the day.

Oh dj you've unfortunately brought it back to your usual anti Cameron postings! I'm still voting in for a whole host of reasons and still absolutely don't get why anyone could think of voting out. Mark Carney said it all for me.
I reckon that economically, voting out is like turkeys voting for Christmas!
What a world it would be with Boris and Trump running it. God help us -because the Europeans wouldn't!

Interesting re loan rates Lumpy please expand.
Restricting the power of vacuum cleaners also a good idea because who knows what they might slurp up if there were no such limits. The odd espadrille? iPods? The kittens? The whole cat? Just think of the trouble one would have unblocking the pipes. And the smell if you didn't notice what you'd done.
I'm afraid this kind of shock-horror EU regulation story is one of a long list of anti-EUstories (some of them written by old haystack head, himself, the inventor and broadcaster of the "bananas can only be sold in bunches of 2-3 because of EU regulations" story that he was still spouting last week.
There are important EU regulations which protect food safety, the environment and workers rights. Some people in business hate these regulations because they would prefer to conduct business without having to spend money taking extra care over the sources of food or reducing pollution or giving workers paid holidays and parental leave. If we leave, there is nothing to stop a future government with a large majority from ditching any or all these regulations.
Of course we are not all in favour of all the regulations. I am not personally in favour of all the regulations - probably all of us could find one that we don't like. But the same applies to UK law. That is the nature of living in a civilised democracy with lots of laws.

Reducing the power of anything that provides heat, kettles, toasters, heaters etc. Does not make them any more efficient, they just take longer to boil and use exactly the same Kwhrs. There are some kettles that have insulation, but they are expensive and make little difference. Just boiling the amount of water required is afr more efficient.
If you really want to save energy, put an extra jumper on in winter and turn the heating down a degree, that will save vastly more.

JessM I didn't realise we have the eu to thank for paid holidays. I can only assume that I had very kind employers who gave me paid holidays from 1961( when I started work) until we joined the eu.

we have to look at the eu referendum over all not just pick out one or two things we dont like or disagree with. Ive looked at both sides and now Im more confused than ever!

The power of a vacuum cleaner of more benefit than a 28 day annual holiday for the workers ?

Petra not sure how long since you have been active in the workplace but you may be aware that there are increasing numbers of people who are employed by an agency. They may be, in effect, permanent jobs, but until 2011 they had no entitlement to any holiday pay.
I once worked for a short while in a well-known motor company head office and most of the staff were not employed directly. They worked for Serco or Reed. But due to an EU decision they were entitled to holiday pay.:

*Since 1 October 2011, agency workers have had the right to the same holiday entitlement as if they had been recruited directly by the hirer to do the same job. This right applies once the agency worker has completed a 12-week qualifying period.
For example, if the hirer's employees are entitled to 35 days' holiday a year, you will also be entitled to 35 days.*

Jenty I think one of the problems is that those who demand "leave" talk as is everything will be right if we do so and those who demand "remain" put it forward as if all will be right in that instance. I cannot imagine any thinking person really believing that everything will be right in either case.

I have gone for the fact that I am in favour of 75% (approx.) of what being in means. Because the two sides are offering a sense of perfection I believe whichever side wins people will feel very disillusioned with the outcome - just as they are after elections

Jane10, did you look at the pictures?
Two of them are of campaigners, one Kent and one Sussex.
They are supposedly Kent supporters for staying in, and Sussex supporters for staying in.
Twelve of the supporters obviously live in both places as they are in both photos. It's actually Kent Conservatives and Sussex Conservatives, and there's a battlebus in both photos. Considering that 18 police forces are looking into what happened at the 2015 election, and Cameron says that whatever happened it's all his fault, then yes, it is time for Cameron to take the flak for his bad ideas.
Did you watch the Boris v. Dave programme on Channel4?
One implication was that Cameron was elected because of his anti-EU stance. Not sure what his constituents think now.
Does anyone know?

I do actually believe we should stay in, but not because of anything Cameron says or does.

Many of us that wish to remain in the EU have said it is not perfect Gracesgran but we still think on balance it is the better option than something we have no idea about and how it will impact on the UK now. The leavers do not seem to think there will be a downside.

So you think Geminite is telling tall stories about the German girl. I have German relatives and I can tell you that they do think this way, " if you just obey the rules and do as we say " *Angela Merkel is right, immigrants are not a problem ". I could continue for pages but I am boring myself now.

Yes, I've made my mind up. Same it was a little while ago when raised on gransnet. Stay in. I wouldn't trust our government to protect the few remaining rights that people have in the workplace.

Gransnet EU poll 52% leave 38% remain.

Talking to people about this issue out in the community, a lot of people are fed up with the bickering and contradictory statements. Strikes me that a lot of the current unpleasantness is between the inners and the outers in the Tory camp as the underlying battle which caused the referendum - who is going to get control of the Tory party - is played out. Nigel Farage must be feeling pretty happy about this. Pity the rest of us are being put through this though.

Sorry Welshwife but I did say those who demand in each case and, obviously those of us - and I include myself - who say the way we would choose is not perfect are not included in the group who "demand".