"Modern mums have lost the plot"

I also get very irritated with pretending it comes from the baby when it doesn't. e.g baby led weaning when the baby only has the choice of 'take it or leave it' ( the way they always have) as it is completely mother led ( the way it always was).

Well said trisher .

I think these 'guru women' and Internet advice are filling the gap left by the demise of the extended family. Mums and/or grannies traditionally were usually close at hand for many new mums to help out, not only with advice but hands on support. The rise of the nuclear family has meant that this support system is often not available. And from what I have seen recently with my own DDs, HVs are thin on the ground.

The baby sleeping thing ran its course right through my own experience of mothering new babies over a period of 7 years. Twins in mid 70s on the side; DS in late 70's on the tummy; DD3 in early 80's on the back. No wonder new mums get confused.

No I don't have no sympathy for mothers these days nothing is ever right we wasn't able to park right near the door of the supermarket and before I could drive I remember getting a bus to London to visit my parents with two children one toddler one baby bags buggy and I managed.

I hate these baby guru women. Who the hell do they think they are and why does any woman take any notice of them? The baby -mother connection is the closest there can be and if only women had the confidence to go with their instincts things would be fine. Babies are people and what suits one doesn't suit another. i'd stick these women in an institution somewhere, make them eat the same things all the time (even if they hate it). Make them go to bed when told. Make them watch TV programmes that suit everyone, and keep them to a tight timetable. Then they might realise how awful they are being.

I swaddled both my children [now 45 and 42] and they slept on their sides with a rolled up cot blanket behind them to stop them turning over - and they didn't turn over.

they slept in a swinging crib for several months and then went into a big cot - still sleeping on their sides.

I didn't breastfeed - I never wanted to - and they grew up well nourished and we bonded over bottles.

I used terry nappies as you didn't get disposable ones in those days [early 70s] and I pushed them in the pram everywhere. they eventually graduated to a pushchair and I've done the collapse the pushchair with an armful of baby, toddler in hand and a very large bag of shopping - and survived.

both my son and my daughter were brought up to be independent and they weren't made the centre of everyone's attention. they knew that mummy and daddy came first and that was accepted. if they wanted to speak then they waited their turn - as adults do.

I read the article and, although I agreed with some of the things it said, I didn't agree with them all. my babies were fed on demand not to a timetable and they slept through the night at quite an early age ............... in their own bedroom.

I swaddled mine.Its a totally different world today.I think generally most kids are ok,it's only the few.My son and DIL are doing a good job with my GC.Not that I would say if they weren't mind.In fact,I can honestly say,I have never uttered the words or even thought them," in my day" Having said that,my own thoughts are,no,not all change is for the better.Will our GC be able to walk around the countryside safely.?

I think that you have to deal with the baby that you have and they have not read the books!
I can't agree with her on everything. e.g. swaddling babies to make them feel secure. Mine didn't want to be swaddled, I knew that from the womb, his arms were always moving freely. I only tried it once and he had to put enormous effort into freeing them. I only tried it because the midwife asserted that 'all' babies liked it.
I think that you should wait and see what you get. Pointless doing attachment parenting if your baby wants their own space.
Do what suits you and the baby.
It is ridiculous to think you can say something is good for all babies they are all different. You wouldn't say something was good for all grandmothers (what one likes another loathes) and yet we do it for babies!

No matter how I laid them, my DC wriggled round to sleep just how they wanted from a very early age. I was on my own apart from several young mothers who lived close to me, no DM or DMIL anywhere around, but I was a fairly self-reliant 29 year old by the time I had my first DS and felt that he and I knew what was best for him.
I was lucky in that I almost always had use of a car, but certainly when my DC were able to walk well, I rarely took a pushchair when we went out - and younger DS absolutely refused to go in a pushchair as soon as he could walk. I do wonder why 4 and 5 year olds seem to be plonked in a pushchair instead of getting some exercise. I know it takes longer to get anywhere but still...
I also wonder if young parents should be taught how to say 'No' properly . Children are like dogs - they can read a lot into how things are said. Anything other than a flat 'No' with no upward intonation means 'I'm not really convinced about this!'. Elder DS learnt this well, and DGC know that if dad or grandma say 'No' then they mean it.

You can only ever do what you think is right. I slept mine on their tummies, to get the wind up I was told. My dil are amazed my boys survived. So am I, if advice has changed.

Also mine swam as babies due to living in the tropics. Dil thinks I am using rose coloured glasses.....me, surely not!!!!!

DD1 slept on her front - the advice of the HV at the time (advice which was constantly reiterated and reinforced to all us new mothers). She hated it.
DS slept on his back (a very hot summer, it would not have been wise to put him on his tummy in that heat)
DD2 was put on her side with a rolled up blanket behind her (advice of the HV) but constantly wriggled until she was on her back.

My son would only ever sleep on his front as a baby. He's 46 now - and says he's an insomniac.

I must say I like to see small babies lying flat, either in a pram or good-sized padded pushchair, rather than hunched up in the car-seat type that clip on to a base.

Pompa same here. I always say my children thrived despite me, not because of me.

I had my fair share of pushing prams and bus trips and crying babies. In fact I remember on one occasion when my youngest fell as we were getting off the bus and started crying (she had skinned her knee), and her brother (18 months older) started up too in sympathy, bursting into tears myself at the prospect of our outing being ruined. So we were all 3 crying

I happily took advice from my mother and my MIL, I was grateful for their input. Don't know what I'd have done without them.

I suspect your DD was born a a time when advice was to lie babies or their side or back Granarchist - that was certainly the advice given to me. But since then hard evidence has accumulated that this is not the best option.

Statistics back this up - as shown by the dramatic drop in SIDS since the 'Back to Sleep' campaign. There are adults walking around nowadays who are completely unaware they could have been another sad statistic.

My DD was in a frog splint for CDH at birth - so impossible to lie on her side. One doctor told me if I put her on her back she would choke and another said if I laid her face down she would suffocate. Very helpful to a first time mother. I still think maternal instinct is the best guide and all my DDs have been able to ask advice and take it from people they trust. There are so many people out there with conflicting views and new mothers are so vulnerable.

Anniebach hear hear. Yes, in my day we did things differently. Doesn't mean those ways were better .

It's usually the single mothers on our bus who think they own it. How do you know they're single Marmark?

On the subject of sleeping babes on their back, I can only say that when mine were little the advice was to sleep them on their fronts to prevent them from choking. This was brought home to me when my youngest was just 24 hours old - somehow she rolled onto her back (heaven knows how!) while I was off in the loo. When I came back she was on her back, blue and gasping as she had inhaled vomit. I grabbed her from the cot, turned her upside down and hit her on the back, whilst shouting for my OH who is a doctor. He dealt with her and we had a long discussion with his paediatric colleague and decided to keep her at home with one of us observing carefully for the next 24 hours. She was fine in the end but I shudder to think what might have happened if I had been taking a bath for instance.

I found it very hard when my GC were laid on their backs as babies. I just had to grit my teeth. But my two oldest DDs fund it hard too as they had been old enough to remember what happened to their little sister and they can remember me shouting for some help.

I do not dispute the findings of the cot death researchers, but it is hard not to feel instinctively that this is counter-intuitive.

times have moved on surely as long as the babies are doing well does it really matter how mums today are bringing up their children!

Why does every generation criticise the younger generation - in my day we didn't do this/do that etc.

We don't have any new babies in the family at the moment although I suspect they are not too far away (grandchildren getting married now). However my hairdressers daughter came in with her four week old the other day and she was terrified of everything she was doing with her baby having received so much conflicting advice. I said what I said to my own daughter ' let your maternal instinct and your growing knowledge of the baby guide you'. My own daughter rather than take my advice slavishly followed Gina Fords Contented Little Baby and had anything but and although I love him to bits at nearly 12 he is a little tin god.

My daughter discovered the art of slings and baby wearing when DGS1 was about 6 mnths and has used several different types from the start with DGS2. Her hands are free to hold the toddler's hand and its easier to get on and off buses etc.
Dad takes the two little boys to nursery on the bus with Dgs2 in a sling and has a hand free for #1.

Yes! In general I think a lot of younger people in general seem to think the world is only for them, in a way we never did.
Some of those buggies are huge, the equivalent of those 4x4 vehicles.

We bought our children up in the 70s and 80s with the general idea that if you fed them well, took them to various activities, found a decent sort of school,
and let them play outside for hours(not possible these days) they would grow and thrive.

In my son and daugher-in-law's house there are so many rules that the mind boggles.

My grandson asked me what the rules were in my flat to which I replied.
"Be kind and considerate."
I will probably get into trouble if this gets back to mum and dad.

I have envy for the mums and their buggies. I remember a driver saying to me when I tried to get a huge double pushchair (folded down) onto a bus.

"You're not getting on this bus with that thing!!!"

I do have sympathy for mums today but I've done the walking in the pouring rain, with three children and a dog with all my shopping underneath the pram/pushchair but I rarely complained. Life today is very car centered but back then it wasn't so we were all in the same boat so to speak.

not sure about putting babies to sleep on their sides. The SIDS charities have spent millions pushing the 'Back to Sleep' message and cot deaths have been reduced by 50% since this message got across. But they also push the message that it is dangerous to sleep with your baby in your bed.

A bit of common sense on both sides would go a long way.

These big buggies are designed for walking (as Indiana's daughter does). If someone has walked their baby to the shop/cafe/etc then fine, and many of these cafes would have less business without the buggy brigade at off peak times.

Where there is an element of truth is that some of today's parents and bringing their children up with a sense of entitlement which is unrealistic and they are in for a shock when they have to live in the real world.

I think most parents have got it right,I've met one or two so called tin gods,( not nice). It's usually the single mothers on our bus who think they own it.