Am I just being an old fashioned prude

My grandkids have been known to hear the odd f--- from me. Hilarious giggling usually ensues. They would never swear, themselves. Well, not in my hearing. Who knows what goes on in the playground when mischievous small boys get together?

Just remembered another story. This is for people who think young children are just sponges and don't think about what words mean. When DDs 1 & 2 were very young (DD1 might have been two but not much over that; she was sitting on the pram seat above DD2 who was a small baby lying in the pram), we set off out somewhere. A little way up the street where we lived I remembered something I'd forgotten. Given how much of a tizwaz (I couldn't leave DD1 in the pram seat while I went indoors, for a start; it wasn't safe to do that) would be to go back and get it, I said "Oh, hell!" and turned the pram round.

DD1 said: "What you said?" She knew it wasn't an expression she'd heard before and clearly wondered what it meant. I told her I'd forgotten something. I reckon she then understood that it was just an expletive used when one's annoyed at oneself, or something, even if she couldn't actually have verbalised that idea. I never heard her say it. Two year olds don't have that kind of adult frustration at themselves.

I think it important that children do not hear it from parents or Grandparents, how can we criticise them if they do.

You're absolutely right my grandchildren will hear 'rude' words on the street and at school ( the older 2 have already encountered this ) but not in my home and not on my watch

I served my time in the military and can swear like a trooper- I just don't need to these days. The older 2 know there are 'naughty' words and we don't use them and for now that's good enough.

The workmen , recently working on the embankment by our house were very apologetic when I popped round to explain their voices carry. It was no big deal to them and saved us an explanation or mimicking from our 4 year old.

Its one of those things - I have an issue with swearing in front of children and I'm not afraid to speak up . I'm never rude and I always explain why. Never had a problem yet.

Unfortunately regardless of whether your grandson hears this in your garden from the neighbours he'll definitely hear it outside in the street, at school and even in the supermarket. I'm never quite sure whether the right response is to just ignore it or perhaps look surprised and say something like 'naughty Mr X' he'll have to sit on the naughty step won't he? Having worked in a factory with 20 men I'm quite used to the various swear words and am not averse to using them myself but would never do it in front of a child (or my mother come to that - she would have been mortified if she'd heard my dad as his dementia got worse!). Apparently my 2 year old grandson in NZ heard someone using the f word recently and has kept repeating it - his mum and dad are worried as a very dear friend of my son is going to stay with them and his language is very colourful. Ear defenders might be the answer

However much you protect your children, grandchildren from hearing foul language, the chances are when once they get to school they are going to hear it, and in some cases, as a 'dare' be encouraged to use it. The important thing really, is that they know it is not an acceptable way to speak or hold a conversation.

I agree that it's a lazy use of language an if one isn't lazy about what language one uses one doesn't need to use such words as we've been discussing.

Here's a story. Minibags was writing a poem at school when she was six. She needed a word that rhymed with muck. A child near her said the one beginning with f so Minibags repeated it. Before she'd had a chance to ask what it meant, she was told off by the classroom assistant. She'd never heard the word before. She didn't know what it meant or how it is usually used.

I think the classroom assistant was unreasonable. So does Minibags. She still smarts at the injustice served her. No-one at school explained what the problem was. Why not?

I still maintain that word is only rude if it's used rudely. Minibags wasn't being rude. Neither are the neighbours in maryrose's OP. It's up to her whether she says anything to her neighbours about their diction. I wouldn't, unless they were using the words aggressively and rudely. I probably still wouldn't, actually, but I would talk to any children in my care about the issues.

We have to be careful around my GS (11) who has come to an agreement with his parents that, if he hears an adult saying a 'naughty' word, he is allowed to repeat it! I need hardly say that - although they are never by any means foul mouthed - they are specially careful in his hearing.

I am obviously an old fashioned prude. Whilst I can do nothing about it most of the time, I definitely don't like it.

I hate it in public, on TV and on forums like this. It is unnecessary, there are words to express oneself without it.
At home, I will not accept it, if any uses the F word in my home, I ask them not to, I only know one person that would have been that discourteous, and they got told, as it happened, not by me, by my daughter.

DH and I have never used swearing in everyday conversation and find it offensive when young people use the f word frequently.

Well Thatbags you may well be right but for my grandchildren I don't want them to use the word in any form . I think it's a lazy use of language and there's a lot of words that would be much more useful.

Also, the older they are the easier it is to explain that however you use it ( in my opinion) it's a rude word. Our 2 year old if he heard it is likely to just say it for the sound it makes , and it's hard to rationalise with a 2 year old.

I agree with nannaandgrampy. I really hate it but it does seem to be the norm and people don't seem to invest it with any seriousness these days. I just think its unnecessary and lazy. Yes I may be an old fashioned prude but it does offend me. I hope the pendulum will swing back and we will hear this ugly word less and less but I doubt it.

The neighbours' diction might not change, but the child will learn. Children are not just sponges. They pick up how words are used too. Just hearing the word fuck, or others, in conversational padding, is not going to make the child tell his dad to fuck off. He'll only do that if he hears the phrased used rudely like that. Littering non-aggressive conversation with fucks and shits (or whatever) is not the same thing at all.

I agree that the language doesn't determine the character of a person, and good neighbours are important. NannaandGrampys idea to casually mention it if DGS is around sounds sensible. Funnily enough it was the womens language that was loudest and most colourful. We may become immune to it after while. And like you say jinglebells it is the people and not the language that influences children.

My first conversation with my DIL was very colourful with lots of conversational padding, but I dont notice it now, but she hasnt changed and I wouldnt change her.

Good idea there from Nannaandgrampy.

I think I'm going to fly in the face of the other advice you have received Maryrose.

Conversational padding or not , harmful to the character of a child or not - I don't want my grandchildren to think that the f word is normal anything. I don't like it in conversation because I think its lazy and the English language can do so much better

That's not to say I don't think there's a place for it as an expletive but just not in front of my grandchildren and I have in the past asked people to not use it in front of my GC . No-one has ever made a fuss, the occasional workman has had the grace to apologise and it was as easy as that.

Your neighbours sound nice and isn't it all about how the request is framed ? I would mention it casually and say if they hear your little one in the garden could they try and not use it because he is like a little sponge and you don't want to be the reason he goes home and tells his Dad to f off !!

They'll either try or they won't but if you say nothing it won't improve.

I have the same problem with one of my DILs using this kind of language when she visits , I worry more about what the neighbours think if we are in the garden ! Otherwise she is a lovely intelligent girl who would do anything for me . It is just the way they talk these days - especially women and it means nothing to them , just colourful language . If they are good neighbours just be grateful and don`t alienate them by saying something you will regret .

I wonder how much, if any, hearing, and, indeed, using, swear words, can ever influence the actual character of a child? By 'character' I am thinking, disposition, attitude towards other people, ie kindness, empathy, sympathy, tolerance.

Has anyone seen the stage version of Billy Elliot? The script is full of 'fucks' and 'wankers'. Do we really think the saying of those words damages the young, and brilliant, cast members?

I don't think your grandchildren will be harmed by hearing these words. It's the actual attitude of the people around young children that influences their natures.

I find the 'conversational padding' often clogs up my understanding of what the person is actually saying.
In this situation, maryrose54, I guess you are stuck with it. If the neighbours know that your DGS is there, tho, they might tone it down if you're lucky!

I know that you are right. It is just conversational padding - I must remember that phrase. It's just that I wasn't brought up with it, I work in an infant school so don't come across it there, and we don't use it at home so it is a s hock to the system to hear it used so freely . Although I know that both our DD and DS use it, they never did when they lived at home and don't now when they visit. They just realised that it wasn't appropriate around people who didn't use it themselves. It is good to know that there are people like PRINTMISS who choose not to use it despite having been brought up with it. I think I must have led a very sheltered life not to have come across it more often, other than on TV. And it doesn't make me switch channels, so why does it offend when I hear it in a neighbours garden? Must give this some thought!! A bit of self- analysis needed I think! Thanks for your views. Am new to posting as you might realise.

Call it what you will, to me it is,and always will be , offensive. I dread the day when very young children just use it in normal conversation. Yes, I am not moving with the times but quite glad of it.

Unfortunately this is now the norm, you just have to accept it as there is nothing you can do to change it..
Our neighbour is a rough diamond and swears as the norm, they are however the best neighbours we have ever had, always on hand whenever we need help.

Thanks bags for the way you frame casual use of what I was brought up to see as the worst kind of swearing . I'll keep 'conversational padding' in mind when I'm startled by the way my sons in law f and geff whilst falling about laughing. I've never heard either of them use that kind of language in anger, it as conversational padding isn't it.

I agree with thatbags about this, you really do just have to get on with it. I find bad language offensive, was brought up with it, and knew every word from a very young age, but I can honestly say I have never used it myself. Obviously if someone swears AT me then I would respond, but if it is just in general conversation, that is what it is to some folk. If people are nice, then their language is their way of speaking, that is all.